[NSRCA-discussion] P-21.14 Comet question for the experts

[Rick Sweeney]

What we have done at local contests is let FAI self judge when flying F.
They just rotate judging/flying...works best with 3 or more pilots

On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 1:44 PM Anthony Romano via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy Tab® S2
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: nyf3apilot <nyf3apilot at gmail.com>
> Date: 12/22/19 1:43 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: J <vellum2 at bellsouth.net>, General pattern discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>, mups53 <mups53 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] P-21.14 Comet question for the experts
>
> I totally would, very frustrating to travel to a contest and put up a very
> solid flight only to get a 950 against a competitor who should have earned
> 2 zeros in the same round for structural errors. We have made the sequences
> so complex they are almost as hard to judge as fly.
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy Tab® S2
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: J via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Date: 12/22/19 11:32 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: mups53 <mups53 at gmail.com>, General pattern discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] P-21.14 Comet question for the experts
>
> Thanks Mike!
> I’m not certain I’d draw the direct comparison between discussions about
> the specifics of a maneuver with participation. This one in particular left
> room for interpretation, but it’s now been clarified by the folks that
> determine the international criteria. Now we just have to fly it that way,
> which as Dave pointed out is easier said than done ;-)
>
> Joe
>
> On Dec 22, 2019, at 9:28 AM, mups53 via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> 
> FWIW
>  Some may wonder why participation at the Nats is in decline.
>  Well this discussion is an example of why. As the complexity of the
> maneuvers ramps up it also makes judging them harder.
> Masters fliers for the most part are the ones who have to judge FAI. For
> many they don't enjoy it and instead dread having to learn it all so they
> can feel confident they are competent enough. After all we take on the task
> with a deep sense of responsibility.
>  I don't know the answer to this situation.
>  I only know it exists.
>  Merry Christmas everyone.
> Mike Mueller
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: GLEN WATSON via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Date: 12/21/19 9:05 PM (GMT-06:00)
> To: AC Glenn <bhzboy07 at gmail.com>, General pattern discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>, J <vellum2 at bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] P-21.14 Comet question for the experts
>
> This is the challenge of interpreting and applying consistent judging
> standards.
>
> According to 5B.2 and  5B.10:
> In general, turn-around manoeuvres are positioning manoeuvres. Therefore,
> entry and exit altitude need not be the same if the pilot wishes to make an
> attitude adjustment. The keywords are  'in general', this implies 5B.2 and
> 5B.10 would be in effect unless otherwise specified in the manoeuvre
> description.
>
> P-21.14 description:
> Comet with consecutive two ¼ rolls in opposite directions, ½ roll.  From
> upright, push through a 1/8 loop into a 45° downline, perform consecutively
> two ¼ rolls in opposite directions, pull through a ¾ loop into a 45°
> downline, perform a ½ roll, pull through a 1/8 loop, exit upright.
>
> In the description of  P-21.14 there is no requirement mentioned to line
> length or how the lines are drawn except they are 45 degrees. Therefore I
> surmise the standard under 5B.2 and 5B.10 should be applied.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Glen Watson
>
>
> On December 21, 2019 at 8:15 PM AC Glenn via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 21, 2019, at 7:45 PM, J <vellum2 at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> No they don’t. It’s a turn around maneuver that can be used for height
> adjustment. The power point specifically addresses this question in the
> downgrades.
>
> Joe
>
> On Dec 21, 2019, at 8:29 PM, AC Glenn via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Yes they do
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 21, 2019, at 7:14 PM, Don Szczur via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> This may have been asked already, but do the lines have to be the same
> length?
>
> Thanks,
> Don
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