[NSRCA-discussion] P-21.14 Comet question for the experts

[Anthony Romano]

Sent from my Galaxy Tab® S2

-------- Original message --------
From: nyf3apilot <nyf3apilot at gmail.com>
Date: 12/22/19 1:43 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: J <vellum2 at bellsouth.net>, General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>, mups53 <mups53 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] P-21.14 Comet question for the experts

I totally would, very frustrating to travel to a contest and put up a very solid flight only to get a 950 against a competitor who should have earned 2 zeros in the same round for structural errors. We have made the sequences so complex they are almost as hard to judge as fly.

Anthony



Sent from my Galaxy Tab® S2

-------- Original message --------
From: J via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: 12/22/19 11:32 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: mups53 <mups53 at gmail.com>, General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] P-21.14 Comet question for the experts

Thanks Mike!
I’m not certain I’d draw the direct comparison between discussions about the specifics of a maneuver with participation. This one in particular left room for interpretation, but it’s now been clarified by the folks that determine the international criteria. Now we just have to fly it that way, which as Dave pointed out is easier said than done ;-)

Joe

On Dec 22, 2019, at 9:28 AM, mups53 via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:


FWIW
 Some may wonder why participation at the Nats is in decline.
 Well this discussion is an example of why. As the complexity of the maneuvers ramps up it also makes judging them harder.
Masters fliers for the most part are the ones who have to judge FAI. For many they don't enjoy it and instead dread having to learn it all so they can feel confident they are competent enough. After all we take on the task with a deep sense of responsibility.
 I don't know the answer to this situation.
 I only know it exists.
 Merry Christmas everyone.
Mike Mueller



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: GLEN WATSON via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: 12/21/19 9:05 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: AC Glenn <bhzboy07 at gmail.com>, General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>, J <vellum2 at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] P-21.14 Comet question for the experts

This is the challenge of interpreting and applying consistent judging standards.

According to 5B.2 and  5B.10:
In general, turn-around manoeuvres are positioning manoeuvres. Therefore, entry and exit altitude need not be the same if the pilot wishes to make an attitude adjustment. The keywords are  'in general', this implies 5B.2 and 5B.10 would be in effect unless otherwise specified in the manoeuvre description.

P-21.14 description:
Comet with consecutive two ¼ rolls in opposite directions, ½ roll.  From upright, push through a 1/8 loop into a 45° downline, perform consecutively two ¼ rolls in opposite directions, pull through a ¾ loop into a 45° downline, perform a ½ roll, pull through a 1/8 loop, exit upright.

In the description of  P-21.14 there is no requirement mentioned to line length or how the lines are drawn except they are 45 degrees. Therefore I surmise the standard under 5B.2 and 5B.10 should be applied.


Regards,

Glen Watson


On December 21, 2019 at 8:15 PM AC Glenn via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

[X]

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 21, 2019, at 7:45 PM, J <vellum2 at bellsouth.net> wrote:

No they don’t. It’s a turn around maneuver that can be used for height adjustment. The power point specifically addresses this question in the downgrades.

Joe

On Dec 21, 2019, at 8:29 PM, AC Glenn via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Yes they do

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 21, 2019, at 7:14 PM, Don Szczur via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

This may have been asked already, but do the lines have to be the same length?

Thanks,
Don
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