[NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

Vicente "Vince" Bortone vicenterc at comcast.net
Wed May 6 09:26:24 AKDT 2009



Let me add: later in the day after getting some exponetial "beer"........... 



VB 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "mike mueller" <mups1953 at yahoo.com> 
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 10:55:25 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central 
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence 


 Chris it's way too early in the morning for Bobby to say "Have a nice day" That comes later in the day. Man don't you know anything about Bobby yet??? Mike 


--- On Wed, 5/6/09, Chris Moon <cjm767driver at hotmail.com> wrote: 

> From: Chris Moon <cjm767driver at hotmail.com> 
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence 
> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
> Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 10:19 AM 
> <div id=yiv1991765604><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC 
> "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> 
> <html> 
> <head> 
>   
> </head> 
>   
> Bobby you left out "Have a nice day"<br> 
> <br> 
> Chris<br> 
> <br> 
> Robert G. Satalino wrote: 
> <blockquote 
>  type="cite">No FAI hand me downs. Just take 
> out three maneuvers, 
> that's more time for other things. 
>   <div><br> 
>   </div> 
>   <div>  <br> 
>   <div> <span class="Apple-style-span" 
>  style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 
> 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:20px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;orphans:2;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;widows:2;word-spacing:0px;"> 
>   <div style=""> 
>   <div>Robert Satalino</div> 
>   <div><a rel="nofollow" 
> target="_blank" 
> href="mailto:rcairbob1 at comcast.net">rcairbob1 at comcast.net</a></div> 
>   <div><br> 
>   </div> 
>   </div> 
>   </span><br 
> class="Apple-interchange-newline"> 
>   </div> 
>   <br> 
>   <div> 
>   <div>On May 5, 2009, at 11:23 AM, mike mueller 
> wrote:</div> 
>   <br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> 
>   <blockquote type="cite"> 
>     <div><br> 
> Mark we have plans for splitting Masters into 2 groups 
> around here. 
> Anything else is a disaster. Mike<br> 
>     <br> 
>     <br> 
> --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Atwood, Mark <<a 
> rel="nofollow" 
>  target="_blank" 
> href="mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com">atwoodm at paragon-inc.com</a>> 
> wrote:<br> 
>     <br> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">From: Atwood, 
> Mark <<a rel="nofollow" 
>  target="_blank" 
> href="mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com">atwoodm at paragon-inc.com</a>><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">Subject: RE: 
> [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 
> 2011 Masters Sequence<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">To: 
> "General pattern discussion" <<a 
> rel="nofollow" 
>  target="_blank" 
> href="mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org</a>>, 
> "<a rel="nofollow" 
> target="_blank" 
> href="mailto:mups1953 at yahoo.com">mups1953 at yahoo.com</a>" 
> <<a rel="nofollow" 
> target="_blank" 
> href="mailto:mups1953 at yahoo.com">mups1953 at yahoo.com</a>><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">Date: Tuesday, 
> May 5, 2009, 10:57 AM<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">Hear 
> Hear!!<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">I love flying 
> long sequences...hate judging 
> them.  There<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">needs to be a 
> balance.  Not just for the 
> sake of the judges,<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">but also to 
> accommodate the length of the 
> contest.  <br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">At a big D4/D5 
> contest we'll usually have 
> 5-6 FAI<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">pilots and 15 
> or 16 masters pilots. 
>  Currently the masters<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">pattern is a 
> MINIMUM of 10 minutes per 
> pilot (maybe not in<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">the air, but 
> you have to really have people 
> on their toes to<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">even get 6 
> flights in an hour).  With 16 
> masters pilots,<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">that's 2 
> hours and 40 minutes of flying per 
> round if<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">you're 
> humpin'.   Six rounds means 16 hours 
> of<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">flying for JUST 
> masters guys.  Assuming you 
> have 2 lines,<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">that means one 
> of those lines is dedicated 
> to Masters for<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">the entire 
> contest AND assume you have 16 
> hours to fly.<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">We never have 
> 16 hours to fly.  Rarely can 
> we get people to<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">stay until 6pm 
> on Sunday (9am - 6pm with a 
> lunch break both<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">days) and most 
> fields have the sun in the 
> box either in the<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">morning or 
> afternoon which shortens the 
> flying day even<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">more.<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">Now add to 
> those woes that you only have 
> 5-6 FAI guys<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">judging. 
>  You need 32 man hours of judging, 
> so even if you<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">mix in a group 
> of Advanced flyers it's a 
> loooong time in<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">the 
> chair.<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">Bottom line, 
> regardless of whether it's 
> P-09 (probably<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">not a good 
> choice at this point) or a home 
> brewed<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">pattern...it 
> needs to follow the FAI trend 
> of getting a<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">little shorter. 
>  <br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">My 
> .02<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">-----Original 
> Message-----<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">From: <a 
> rel="nofollow" 
>  target="_blank" 
> href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org</a><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">[<a 
> rel="nofollow" 
>  target="_blank" 
> href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org</a>] 
> On Behalf<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">Of Archie 
> Stafford<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">Sent: Tuesday, 
> May 05, 2009 11:38 AM<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">To: <a 
> rel="nofollow" 
>  target="_blank" 
> href="mailto:mups1953 at yahoo.com">mups1953 at yahoo.com</a>; 
> 'General 
> pattern<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote 
> type="cite">discussion'<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: 
> [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 
> 2011 Masters<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote 
> type="cite">Sequence<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote 
> type="cite">Verne,<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">This started 
> when I suggested to the 
> sequence committee<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">that we need 
> to<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">shorten the 
> masters pattern.  Flying it is 
> fine, but I<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">think we need 
> to take<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">into account 
> the guys who have to sit and 
> judge it.  I<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">heard several 
> guys in<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">FAI judging 
> this weekend about how long a 
> sequence it is. <br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">Which 
> wouldn't be<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">near as bad 
> except for the fact Masters is 
> usually the<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">largest class 
> at most<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">contests. 
>  I think we need to consider the 
> length of time<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">in the 
> judges<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">chair for those 
> that have to judge it as 
> well.<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">Arch<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">-----Original 
> Message-----<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">From: <a 
> rel="nofollow" 
>  target="_blank" 
> href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org</a><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">[<a 
> rel="nofollow" 
>  target="_blank" 
> href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org</a>] 
> On Behalf<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">Of mike 
> mueller<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">Sent: Tuesday, 
> May 05, 2009 10:31 AM<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">To: General 
> pattern discussion<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: 
> [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 
> 2011 Masters<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote 
> type="cite">Sequence<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> The current 
> pattern puts E. guys at a bit 
> of a<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">disadvantage. 
> It pushes my<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">setup a little 
> further than I prefer. It is 
> a great pattern<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">and I 
> compliment<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">the designers 
> for having a nice flow. Mike<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">--- On Tue, 
> 5/5/09, <a rel="nofollow" 
>  target="_blank" 
> href="mailto:verne at twmi.rr.com">verne at twmi.rr.com</a><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><<a 
> rel="nofollow" 
>  target="_blank" 
> href="mailto:verne at twmi.rr.com">verne at twmi.rr.com</a>> 
> wrote:<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite">From: <a 
> rel="nofollow" 
>  target="_blank" 
> href="mailto:verne at twmi.rr.com">verne at twmi.rr.com</a> 
> <<a rel="nofollow" 
>  target="_blank" 
> href="mailto:verne at twmi.rr.com">verne at twmi.rr.com</a>><br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: 
> [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 
> 2011 Masters<br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote 
> type="cite">Sequence<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite">To: 
> "General pattern discussion"<br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"><<a 
> rel="nofollow" 
>  target="_blank" 
> href="mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org</a>><br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite">Date: 
> Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 10:24 AM<br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite">If it sounded 
> as though I were 
> complaining that the<br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote 
> type="cite">current<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite">Masters 
> schedule takes too long, I 
> wasn't. Just<br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite">commenting 
> that it takes a lot longer 
> than the<br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">previous 
> one.<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite">For me, eight 
> minutes from takeoff to 
> landing approach<br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite">(my<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite">timer is 
> started on takeoff and is almost 
> always<br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote 
> type="cite">beeping<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite">during my 
> landing). I fly at what I would 
> call a<br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote 
> type="cite">medium<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite">speed most of 
> the time. <br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite">I'm also 
> against flying the FAI-P 
> schedule.<br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote 
> type="cite">I'd<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite">rather fly a 
> home-grown variant that we 
> create<br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote 
> type="cite">ourselves.<br> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite">Verne 
> Koester<br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite"><br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
>     <blockquote type="cite"> 
>       <blockquote type="cite">---- Stuart 
> Chale <<a rel="nofollow" 
>  target="_blank" 
> href="mailto:schale at optonline.net">schale at optonline.net</a>> 
> wrote: <br> 
>       </blockquote> 
>     </blockquote> 
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> target="_blank" 
> href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></pre> 
>   <pre> 
> <hr size="4" width="90%"> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message. 
> Checked by AVG - <a rel="nofollow" 
> class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" 
> target="_blank" 
> href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a> 
> 
> Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.19/2099 - Release 
> Date: 05/05/09 13:07:00 
> 
>   </pre> 
> </blockquote> 
>   
> </html> 
> 
> 
> </div>_______________________________________________ 
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