[NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

Tue May 5 09:41:48 AKDT 2009

I find this hard to believe as the masters guys are always flying later than
the FAI guys.  I think we really need to start considering the guys in the
chair judging.  Masters when flying in the morning has flown through lunch
before when there are enough guys.  The turnout has been lighter the last
couple of years, but it definitely takes longer to get through the large
number of masters guy than it does 25 FAI guys.  Especially with the new FAI
sequences.

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:36 PM
To: NSRCA Discussion List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

Hmm, I have my timer on my Tx set to  8 minutes.  I start it after I place
the plane on the runway and then walk to my flight station and land in close
to 8 minutes. My timer is at least 30 or more  seconds down before I even
take off. You guys must fly awful big with all your excess YS horsepower<g>

I had this discussion with Dave Guerin today. His experience at the Nats is
that the FAI guys take longer than the Masters guys still. He feels the
length of the sequence is not an issue. 

  _____  

From: astafford at swtexas.net
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 10:04:14 -0500
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

Stuart,

Are you including the takeoff and landing in the 7 minutes?  At a contest
here in TX last weekend, most guys were over 8 minutes for the whole
sequence.   This really makes the judging drag on, especially since masters
is usually the largest class at most contests.  

As far as integrated rolling maneuvers.   They aren't near as difficult as
many make them out to be.  A loop with a roll at the top or 4 point at the
top isn't nearly as difficult to do well as say the current figure M.  Ones
that are the bottom of a loop are a different story, but there are
integrated rolling maneuvers that could be added that would help prepare
people for FAI.  Maybe this is something that sequence committees should
look at.  I hate to use IMAC as a reference, but they start doing 90 degree
rolling stuff in their intermediate class to prepare people for the upper
classes.  

Frankly right now, the advanced class doesn't prepare anyone for anything.
It isn't much more difficult that the current intermediate sequence and the
jump from Advanced to masters is huge.  I understand Masters is a
destination class and many people wont move on to FAI, but I also don't
think we want this ridiculous jump between the two patterns.  After a while
you are going to have such a large gap that you are going to have a hard
time finding people qualified to judge it.  You are going to have maneuvers
that guys in masters may have never heard of.  The designs people are flying
in Masters and the lower classes are mostly driven by FAI.  Maybe we should
start taking advantage of some of the benefits of these designs in the other
classes.  

There is no reason an Advanced pilot couldn't do a loop with a 4 point at
the top.  It is certainly no more difficult than an Avalanche.  It would
also begin to prepare people in the lower classes for tougher maneuvers and
using the rudder in the higher classes.  

Arch

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Stuart Chale
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:48 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

Is the integrated half roll horizontal at the bottom or at knife edge at the
bottom :)

I am one that likes the length of the masters sequence.  It can be completed
in about 7 minutes or so.  The IMAC guys that I fly with are always
surprised that there are so many maneuvers as they fly two sequences per
round.  Nice to see them impressed about something to do with pattern.  I
wouldn't like to see it get any longer though.  
As far as using the FAI schedules.  It sure would make judging much easier
for both groups of pilots.  I find it difficult to judge FAI as I haven't
memorized their sequence.  Only hitting 1 or 2 contests per year for the
last couple of years makes it difficult to judge them without a caller
giving me the maneuvers.  Flying the same sequence would obviously make that
easier.  
The FAI sequence is more difficult with some integrated rollers but I think
that is something most masters pilots could learn.

Stuart

Mike Hester wrote: 

Well, I'll just put in my opinion on it since it affects me....

Replacing the new masters pattern with P-09 probably wouldn't be THAT big of
a deal although I don't really like that schedule. Fact is there's nothing
in there a masters pilot would have any serious problems with.

The same cannot be said for P-11. The first manuever is a figure M with an
integrated half roll in the center, effectively placing the plane in knife
edge headed down and turning back upward. There are a lot of planes still
out there that won't turn the corner; it takes a VERY good plane or a very
good pilot to do it correctly. I've been playing with it for 2 years myself.
I made sure my plane would do it happily, but the older V2 wouldn't do it
happily...and a plane from the Focus era? Have fun. As I said it can be done
but it's definitely not fun.

And that's just one manuever. With the way FAI is going, lord only knows
what the future holds. 

On the same subject I have a feeling any "recreational" FAI competitor might
be flying masters come next year =)

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 

From: michael s harrison 

To: 'General pattern discussion' 

Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:02 AM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

Joe,

It has probably been mentioned before but I would recommend simply using the
existing-whatever is at that time- FAI P pattern for the masters sequence
and allow it to be replaced by the upcoming P pattern every cycle.  The
pilots are plenty good enough and it would really simplify things and put
everyone on the same page.  I believe it would be exciting and fun.

Mike

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 8:05 AM
To: NSRCA Discussion List
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

There has been some discussion on whether it is time to shorten the length
of the Masters sequence for 2011. A Poll has been set up on RCU to get the
current crop of Masters pilots and future Masters pilots opinions.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8742141/tm.htm

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