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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I find this hard to believe as the masters guys are always
flying later than the FAI guys. I think we really need to start considering
the guys in the chair judging. Masters when flying in the morning has flown
through lunch before when there are enough guys. The turnout has been lighter
the last couple of years, but it definitely takes longer to get through the
large number of masters guy than it does 25 FAI guys. Especially with the new
FAI sequences.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Joe
Lachowski<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> NSRCA Discussion List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Hmm,
I have my timer on my Tx set to 8 minutes. I start it after I
place the plane on the runway and then walk to my flight station and land
in close to 8 minutes. My timer is at least 30 or more seconds
down before I even take off. You guys must fly awful big with all your excess
YS horsepower<g><br>
<br>
I had this discussion with Dave Guerin today. His experience at the Nats is
that the FAI guys take longer than the Masters guys still. He feels the length
of the sequence is not an issue. <br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center id=stopSpelling>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>From: astafford@swtexas.net<br>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 10:04:14 -0500<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Stuart,</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Are you including the takeoff and landing in the 7
minutes? At a contest here in TX last weekend, most guys were over 8
minutes for the whole sequence. This really makes the judging drag
on, especially since masters is usually the largest class at most
contests. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As far as integrated rolling maneuvers. They aren’t
near as difficult as many make them out to be. A loop with a roll at the
top or 4 point at the top isn’t nearly as difficult to do well as say the
current figure M. Ones that are the bottom of a loop are a different
story, but there are integrated rolling maneuvers that could be added that would
help prepare people for FAI. Maybe this is something that sequence
committees should look at. I hate to use IMAC as a reference, but they
start doing 90 degree rolling stuff in their intermediate class to prepare
people for the upper classes. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Frankly right now, the advanced class doesn’t prepare anyone for
anything. It isn’t much more difficult that the current intermediate
sequence and the jump from Advanced to masters is huge. I understand
Masters is a destination class and many people wont move on to FAI, but I also
don’t think we want this ridiculous jump between the two patterns. After
a while you are going to have such a large gap that you are going to have a
hard time finding people qualified to judge it. You are going to have
maneuvers that guys in masters may have never heard of. The designs
people are flying in Masters and the lower classes are mostly driven by
FAI. Maybe we should start taking advantage of some of the benefits of
these designs in the other classes. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>There is no reason an Advanced pilot couldn’t do a loop with a 4
point at the top. It is certainly no more difficult than an
Avalanche. It would also begin to prepare people in the lower classes for
tougher maneuvers and using the rudder in the higher classes. </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Arch</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Stuart
Chale<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:48 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Is
the integrated half roll horizontal at the bottom or at knife edge at the
bottom :)<br>
<br>
I am one that likes the length of the masters sequence. It can be
completed in about 7 minutes or so. The IMAC guys that I fly with are
always surprised that there are so many maneuvers as they fly two sequences per
round. Nice to see them impressed about something to do with
pattern. I wouldn't like to see it get any longer though. <br>
As far as using the FAI schedules. It sure would make judging much easier
for both groups of pilots. I find it difficult to judge FAI as I haven't
memorized their sequence. Only hitting 1 or 2 contests per year for the
last couple of years makes it difficult to judge them without a caller giving
me the maneuvers. Flying the same sequence would obviously make that
easier. <br>
The FAI sequence is more difficult with some integrated rollers but I think
that is something most masters pilots could learn.<br>
<br>
Stuart<br>
<br>
Mike Hester wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Well,
I'll just put in my opinion on it since it affects me....</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Replacing
the new masters pattern with P-09 probably wouldn't be THAT big of a deal
although I don't really like that schedule. Fact is there's nothing in there a
masters pilot would have any serious problems with.</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The
same cannot be said for P-11. The first manuever is a figure M with an
integrated half roll in the center, effectively placing the plane in knife edge
headed down and turning back upward. There are a lot of planes still out there
that won't turn the corner; it takes a VERY good plane or a very good pilot to
do it correctly. I've been playing with it for 2 years myself. I made sure my
plane would do it happily, but the older V2 wouldn't do it happily...and a
plane from the Focus era? Have fun. As I said it can be done but it's definitely
not fun.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>And
that's just one manuever. With the way FAI is going, lord only knows what the
future holds. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>On
the same subject I have a feeling any "recreational" FAI competitor
might be flying masters come next year =)</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-Mike</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> michael s harrison </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> 'General pattern
discussion' </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Tuesday, May 05,
2009 10:02 AM</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Joe,</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It has probably been mentioned before but I would recommend
simply using the existing-whatever is at that time- FAI P pattern for the
masters sequence and allow it to be replaced by the upcoming P pattern every
cycle. The pilots are plenty good enough and it would really simplify
things and put everyone on the same page. I believe it would be exciting
and fun.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Mike</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Joe
Lachowski<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 05, 2009 8:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> NSRCA Discussion List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>There has been some discussion on whether
it is time to shorten the length of the Masters sequence for 2011. A Poll has
been set up on RCU to get the current crop of Masters pilots and future Masters
pilots opinions.<br>
<br>
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8742141/tm.htm<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Windows
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style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441)<br>
Database version: 6.12320<br>
http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><br>
<br>
</span><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
<br>
<strong><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>E-mail message checked
by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441)</span></strong><br>
<strong><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Database version:
6.12320</span></strong><br>
<strong><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor-antivirus/</span></strong></span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='text-align:center'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre
style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=4 width="90%" align=center>
</pre><pre style='text-align:center'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre
style='text-align:center'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Insert
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