[NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

Tue May 5 07:40:18 AKDT 2009

Arch,

        Many people moved up to Masters  because they had to and now 
they're stuck there.  These pilots are not  going to do rolling loops.  What they 
will do is take up helis of drop out  altogether. Never, never have rules 
that discourage participation.

      1. Get rid of the ridiculous advancement  system,  Just dump the rule 
and let people fly wherever they want.   Peer pressure will handle the 
rest. This will also allow pilots to test an upper  class.

      2.  Make advanced tougher so it  becomes it own destination class.  
This will keep  Masters from being  the largest class at a contest.  The 
Advanced pilots will feel challenged  and not feel it's necessary to move up.

      3.  Now you can adopt the just expired  P sequence for Masters. 
Masters pilots will have judged it for two years and FAI  pilots will be familiar 
with it for judging the Masters class.  The Masters  pilots have been 
experimenting with it at the practice field anyhow.  You  won't need a sequence 
committee for Masters anymore.  But you need a  Masters class to help judge 
FAI and FAI and Masters pilots together can  judge Advanced.

      4.  For those who will not fly an old P  sequence, the new difficult 
Advanced class is the answer.

      5.  Realize that you are not going  to make everyone happy.

Steve Miller

In a message dated 5/5/2009 11:05:14 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
astafford at swtexas.net writes:

Stuart, 
Are  you including the takeoff and landing in the 7 minutes?  At a contest  
here in TX last weekend, most guys were over 8 minutes for the whole  
sequence.   This really makes the judging drag on, especially since  masters is 
usually the largest class at most contests.    
As  far as integrated rolling maneuvers.   They aren’t near as difficult  
as many make them out to be.  A loop with a roll at the top or 4 point at  
the top isn’t nearly as difficult to do well as say the current figure  M.  
Ones that are the bottom of a loop are a different story, but there  are 
integrated rolling maneuvers that could be added that would help prepare  people 
for FAI.  Maybe this is something that sequence committees should  look at.  
I hate to use IMAC as a reference, but they start doing 90  degree rolling 
stuff in their intermediate class to prepare people for the  upper classes.  

Frankly  right now, the advanced class doesn’t prepare anyone for anything. 
 It  isn’t much more difficult that the current intermediate sequence and 
the jump  from Advanced to masters is huge.  I understand Masters is a 
destination  class and many people wont move on to FAI, but I also don’t think we 
want this  ridiculous jump between the two patterns.  After a while you are 
going to  have such a large gap that you are going to have a hard time 
finding people  qualified to judge it.  You are going to have maneuvers that guys 
in  masters may have never heard of.  The designs people are flying in  
Masters and the lower classes are mostly driven by FAI.  Maybe we should  start 
taking advantage of some of the benefits of these designs in the other  
classes.   
There  is no reason an Advanced pilot couldn’t do a loop with a 4 point at 
the  top.  It is certainly no more difficult than an Avalanche.  It would  
also begin to prepare people in the lower classes for tougher maneuvers and  
using the rudder in the higher classes.   
Arch 

From:  nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org  
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Stuart  Chale
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:48 AM
To: General  pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011  Masters Sequence

Is the integrated half roll horizontal at the bottom or at  knife edge at 
the bottom :)

I am one that likes the length of the  masters sequence.  It can be 
completed in about 7 minutes or so.   The IMAC guys that I fly with are always 
surprised that there are so many  maneuvers as they fly two sequences per round. 
 Nice to see them  impressed about something to do with pattern.  I 
wouldn't like to see it  get any longer though.  
As far as using the FAI schedules.  It  sure would make judging much easier 
for both groups of pilots.  I find it  difficult to judge FAI as I haven't 
memorized their sequence.  Only  hitting 1 or 2 contests per year for the 
last couple of years makes it  difficult to judge them without a caller giving 
me the maneuvers.  Flying  the same sequence would obviously make that 
easier.  
The FAI sequence  is more difficult with some integrated rollers but I 
think that is something  most masters pilots could learn.

Stuart

Mike Hester wrote:   

Well, I'll just put  in my opinion on it since it affects me....

Replacing the new  masters pattern with P-09 probably wouldn't be THAT big 
of a deal although I  don't really like that schedule. Fact is there's 
nothing in there a masters  pilot would have any serious problems with.

The same cannot be  said for P-11. The first manuever is a figure M with an 
integrated half roll  in the center, effectively placing the plane in knife 
edge headed down and  turning back upward. There are a lot of planes still 
out there that won't turn  the corner; it takes a VERY good plane or a very 
good pilot to do it  correctly. I've been playing with it for 2 years 
myself. I made sure my plane  would do it happily, but the older V2 wouldn't do it 
happily...and a plane  from the Focus era? Have fun. As I said it can be 
done but it's definitely not  fun.

And that's just one  manuever. With the way FAI is going, lord only knows 
what the future holds.  

On the same subject  I have a feeling any "recreational" FAI competitor 
might be flying masters  come next year =)

-Mike

----- Original  Message ----- 

From: _michael s harrison_ (mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net)   

To: _'General pattern  discussion'_ 
(mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org)  

Sent: Tuesday, May 05,  2009 10:02 AM

Subject: Re:  [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters  Sequence

Joe, 
It  has probably been mentioned before but I would recommend simply using 
the  existing-whatever is at that time- FAI P pattern for the masters 
sequence  and allow it to be replaced by the upcoming P pattern every cycle.  The  
pilots are plenty good enough and it would really simplify things and put  
everyone on the same page.  I believe it would be exciting and  fun. 
Mike 

From: _nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_ 
(mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org)   [_mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_ 
(mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org) ]  On Behalf Of Joe 
Lachowski
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 8:05  AM
To: NSRCA Discussion List
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion]  Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

There has been  some discussion on whether it is time to shorten the length 
of the Masters  sequence for 2011. A Poll has been set up on RCU to get the 
current crop of  Masters pilots and future Masters pilots opinions.

_http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8742141/tm.htm_ 
(http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8742141/tm.htm)  

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