[NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

Tue May 5 08:39:56 AKDT 2009

Amen. A lot of good ideas there. That would work for me.

John Pavlick

--- On Tue, 5/5/09, Snaproll4 at aol.com <Snaproll4 at aol.com> wrote:

From: Snaproll4 at aol.com <Snaproll4 at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 3:40 PM

Arch,

        Many people moved up to Masters because they had to and now they're stuck there.  These pilots are not going to do rolling loops.  What they will do is take up helis of drop out altogether. Never, never have rules that discourage participation.

      1. Get rid of the ridiculous advancement system,  Just dump the rule and let people fly wherever they want.  Peer pressure will handle the rest. This will also allow pilots to test an upper class.

      2.  Make advanced tougher so it becomes it own destination class.  This will keep  Masters from being the largest class at a contest.  The Advanced pilots will feel challenged and not feel it's necessary to move up.

      3.  Now you can adopt the just expired P sequence for Masters. Masters pilots will have judged it for two years and FAI pilots will be familiar with it for judging the Masters class.  The Masters pilots have been experimenting with it at the practice field anyhow.  You won't need a sequence committee for Masters anymore.  But you need a Masters class to help judge FAI and FAI and Masters pilots together can judge Advanced.

      4.  For those who will not fly an old P sequence, the new difficult Advanced class is the answer.

      5.  Realize that you are not going to make everyone happy.

Steve Miller

In a message dated 5/5/2009 11:05:14 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, astafford at swtexas.net writes:

Stuart,

Are you including the takeoff and landing in the 7 minutes?  At a contest here in TX last weekend, most guys were over 8 minutes for the whole sequence.   This really makes the judging drag on, especially since masters is usually the largest class at most contests.  

As far as integrated rolling maneuvers.   They aren’t near as difficult as many make them out to be.  A loop with a roll at the top or 4 point at the top isn’t nearly as difficult to do well as say the current figure M.  Ones that are the bottom of a loop are a different story, but there are integrated rolling maneuvers that could be added that would help prepare people for FAI.  Maybe this is something that sequence committees should look at.  I hate to use IMAC as a reference, but they start doing 90 degree rolling stuff in their intermediate class to prepare people for the upper classes.  

Frankly right now, the advanced class doesn’t prepare anyone for anything.  It isn’t much more difficult that the current intermediate sequence and the jump from Advanced to masters is huge.  I understand Masters is a destination class and many people wont move on to FAI, but I also don’t think we want this ridiculous jump between the two patterns.  After a while you are going to have such a large gap that you are going to have a hard time finding people qualified to judge it.  You are going to have maneuvers that guys in masters may have never heard of.  The designs people are flying in Masters and the lower classes are mostly driven by FAI.  Maybe we should start taking advantage of some of the benefits of these designs in the other classes.  

There is no reason an Advanced pilot couldn’t do a loop with a 4 point at the top.  It is certainly no more difficult than an Avalanche.  It would also begin to prepare people in the lower classes for tougher maneuvers and using the rudder in the higher classes.  

Arch

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Stuart Chale
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:48 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

Is the integrated half roll horizontal at the bottom or at knife edge at the bottom :)

I am one that likes the length of the masters sequence.  It can be completed in about 7 minutes or so.  The IMAC guys that I fly with are always surprised that there are so many maneuvers as they fly two sequences per round.  Nice to see them impressed about something to do with pattern.  I wouldn't like to see it get any longer though.  
As far as using the FAI schedules.  It sure would make judging much easier for both groups of pilots.  I find it difficult to judge FAI as I haven't memorized their sequence.  Only hitting 1 or 2 contests per year for the last couple of years makes it difficult to judge them without a caller giving me the maneuvers.  Flying the same sequence would obviously make that easier.  
The FAI sequence is more difficult with some integrated rollers but I think that is something most masters pilots could learn.

Stuart

Mike Hester wrote: 

Well, I'll just put in my opinion on it since it affects me....

Replacing the new masters pattern with P-09 probably wouldn't be THAT big of a deal although I don't really like that schedule. Fact is there's nothing in there a masters pilot would have any serious problems with.

The same cannot be said for P-11. The first manuever is a figure M with an integrated half roll in the center, effectively placing the plane in knife edge headed down and turning back upward. There are a lot of planes still out there that won't turn the corner; it takes a VERY good plane or a very good pilot to do it correctly. I've been playing with it for 2 years myself. I made sure my plane would do it happily, but the older V2 wouldn't do it happily...and a plane from the Focus era? Have fun. As I said it can be done but it's definitely not fun.

And that's just one manuever. With the way FAI is going, lord only knows what the future holds. 

On the same subject I have a feeling any "recreational" FAI competitor might be flying masters come next year =)

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 

From: michael s harrison 

To: 'General pattern discussion' 

Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:02 AM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

Joe,
It has probably been mentioned before but I would recommend simply using the existing-whatever is at that time- FAI P pattern for the masters sequence and allow it to be replaced by the upcoming P pattern every cycle.  The pilots are plenty good enough and it would really simplify things and put everyone on the same page.  I believe it would be exciting and fun.
Mike

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 8:05 AM
To: NSRCA Discussion List
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

There has been some discussion on whether it is time to shorten the length of the Masters sequence for 2011. A Poll has been set up on RCU to get the current crop of Masters pilots and future Masters pilots opinions.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8742141/tm.htm

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