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<DIV>Arch,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> Many people moved up to Masters
because they had to and now they're stuck there. These pilots are not
going to do rolling loops. What they will do is take up helis of drop out
altogether. Never, never have rules that discourage participation.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> 1. Get rid of the ridiculous advancement
system, Just dump the rule and let people fly wherever they want.
Peer pressure will handle the rest. This will also allow pilots to test an upper
class.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> 2. Make advanced tougher so it
becomes it own destination class. This will keep Masters from being
the largest class at a contest. The Advanced pilots will feel challenged
and not feel it's necessary to move up.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> 3. Now you can adopt the just expired
P sequence for Masters. Masters pilots will have judged it for two years and FAI
pilots will be familiar with it for judging the Masters class. The Masters
pilots have been experimenting with it at the practice field anyhow. You
won't need a sequence committee for Masters anymore. But you need a
Masters class to help judge FAI and FAI and Masters pilots together can
judge Advanced.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> 4. For those who will not fly an old P
sequence, the new difficult Advanced class is the answer.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> 5. Realize that you are not going
to make everyone happy.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Steve Miller</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 5/5/2009 11:05:14 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
astafford@swtexas.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Stuart,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Are
you including the takeoff and landing in the 7 minutes? At a contest
here in TX last weekend, most guys were over 8 minutes for the whole
sequence. This really makes the judging drag on, especially since
masters is usually the largest class at most contests.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">As
far as integrated rolling maneuvers. They aren’t near as difficult
as many make them out to be. A loop with a roll at the top or 4 point at
the top isn’t nearly as difficult to do well as say the current figure
M. Ones that are the bottom of a loop are a different story, but there
are integrated rolling maneuvers that could be added that would help prepare
people for FAI. Maybe this is something that sequence committees should
look at. I hate to use IMAC as a reference, but they start doing 90
degree rolling stuff in their intermediate class to prepare people for the
upper classes. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Frankly
right now, the advanced class doesn’t prepare anyone for anything. It
isn’t much more difficult that the current intermediate sequence and the jump
from Advanced to masters is huge. I understand Masters is a destination
class and many people wont move on to FAI, but I also don’t think we want this
ridiculous jump between the two patterns. After a while you are going to
have such a large gap that you are going to have a hard time finding people
qualified to judge it. You are going to have maneuvers that guys in
masters may have never heard of. The designs people are flying in
Masters and the lower classes are mostly driven by FAI. Maybe we should
start taking advantage of some of the benefits of these designs in the other
classes. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">There
is no reason an Advanced pilot couldn’t do a loop with a 4 point at the
top. It is certainly no more difficult than an Avalanche. It would
also begin to prepare people in the lower classes for tougher maneuvers and
using the rudder in the higher classes. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Arch<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Stuart
Chale<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:48 AM<BR><B>To:</B> General
pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011
Masters Sequence<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Is the integrated half roll horizontal at the bottom or at
knife edge at the bottom :)<BR><BR>I am one that likes the length of the
masters sequence. It can be completed in about 7 minutes or so.
The IMAC guys that I fly with are always surprised that there are so many
maneuvers as they fly two sequences per round. Nice to see them
impressed about something to do with pattern. I wouldn't like to see it
get any longer though. <BR>As far as using the FAI schedules. It
sure would make judging much easier for both groups of pilots. I find it
difficult to judge FAI as I haven't memorized their sequence. Only
hitting 1 or 2 contests per year for the last couple of years makes it
difficult to judge them without a caller giving me the maneuvers. Flying
the same sequence would obviously make that easier. <BR>The FAI sequence
is more difficult with some integrated rollers but I think that is something
most masters pilots could learn.<BR><BR>Stuart<BR><BR>Mike Hester wrote:
<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Well, I'll just put
in my opinion on it since it affects me....</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Replacing the new
masters pattern with P-09 probably wouldn't be THAT big of a deal although I
don't really like that schedule. Fact is there's nothing in there a masters
pilot would have any serious problems with.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The same cannot be
said for P-11. The first manuever is a figure M with an integrated half roll
in the center, effectively placing the plane in knife edge headed down and
turning back upward. There are a lot of planes still out there that won't turn
the corner; it takes a VERY good plane or a very good pilot to do it
correctly. I've been playing with it for 2 years myself. I made sure my plane
would do it happily, but the older V2 wouldn't do it happily...and a plane
from the Focus era? Have fun. As I said it can be done but it's definitely not
fun.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">And that's just one
manuever. With the way FAI is going, lord only knows what the future holds.
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">On the same subject
I have a feeling any "recreational" FAI competitor might be flying masters
come next year =)</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-Mike</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original
Message ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net
href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">michael s harrison</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern
discussion'</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Tuesday, May 05,
2009 10:02 AM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters
Sequence<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Joe,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It
has probably been mentioned before but I would recommend simply using the
existing-whatever is at that time- FAI P pattern for the masters sequence
and allow it to be replaced by the upcoming P pattern every cycle. The
pilots are plenty good enough and it would really simplify things and put
everyone on the same page. I believe it would be exciting and
fun.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Mike</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A title=mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Joe Lachowski<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 05, 2009 8:05
AM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Discussion List<BR><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion]
Length of 2011 Masters Sequence</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">There has been
some discussion on whether it is time to shorten the length of the Masters
sequence for 2011. A Poll has been set up on RCU to get the current crop of
Masters pilots and future Masters pilots opinions.<BR> <BR><A
title=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8742141/tm.htm
href="http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8742141/tm.htm">http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8742141/tm.htm</A></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
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