[NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI

[J N Hiller]

Thanks Derek I had also considered loading a lot of down travel to the
leading wing aileron to unbalance the roll input. I don't like flipping
switches but it appears to be a necessity, at least with this airframe
revision. I am about to start ironing paint onto the new smaller stab
airframe and am anxious to see how it flies. We can fly until after 8:00 now
so I will have time to try some things. The forecast is for 5-10 cross wind
today, near perfect.
Jim Hiller


-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Derek
Koopowitz
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:11 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI

Jim Hiller:

Increase aileron and reduce rudder - you've already increased elevator.
That should help speed up the snap without it yawing too much with a large
amount of rudder.
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:22 AM, J N Hiller < jnhiller at earthlink.net
<mailto:jnhiller at earthlink.net> > wrote:
Thanks Jim for the link and it's content. Great info. We finally got some
decent flying weather here in the northwest and this afternoon I wanted to
work on the 45 down snap. I have changed the set-up of last year's airplane
to a more forward CG and re-trimmed pitch yesterday. I like it better but
that $#%^* snap appears slow and sluggish almost resembling a barrel roll,
exiting on about a 35 degree line. I am already using high rate elevator for
spin entry and planned to increase the travel and use it for the snap as
well. I have experienced heading changes due to excessive rudder in both the
45 down snap and avalanche and fear more elevator travel will cause more
exit heading deviation and using more aileron may give the appearance of a
fast aileron roll. Today's challenge and the judges will let me know
Saturday morning.
Thanks again for the link. I want to get back into some IMAC competition and
have a 50-size Yak ready to fly but I need to get some quality pattern
practice first.
Scale airplanes snap a lot easier!
Jim Hiller


-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
[mailto: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> ]On Behalf Of Woodward,
Jim
(US SSA)
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:48 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI

Guys,

I thought the FAI changes explicitly allowed flick rolls?  The rule
reads, "... fuselage attitude must show a definite break and separation
from the flight path."

It does not say, "MUST SHOW PITCH BREAK."   Please DO NOT ERROUNIOUSLY
APPLY A PASS/FAIL MAJOR DEDUCTION initial assessment to the snap roll.
Watch the whole maneuver then render your score.

A break and separation from the flight path simply means that the nose
and tail of the plane must rotate in a conical fashion about the fight
axis.  Yaw, roll, and pitch can all break at the same moment if that is
how the pilot does it.

Hey :) some really handsome smart guy wrote some stuff at this link
below about snap rolls to help clarify how they are done in IMAC.

http://www.mini-iac.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=77

thanks,
Jim


-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
[mailto: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> ] On Behalf Of Ken
Thompson
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 10:47 PM
To: Ken Thompson; General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI

How'd I do?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Thompson" < KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com
<mailto:KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com> >
To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI


> That would be the first part...after that better be the tail forming a

> cone, or else...no it wouldn't be a snap;-)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JShulman" < jshulman at cfl.rr.com <mailto:jshulman at cfl.rr.com> >
> To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >
> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
>
>
>> Ken,
>>
>> Would you say that if the plane breaks in pitch it is a snap?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jason
>> www.jasonshulman.com <http://www.jasonshulman.com/>
>> www.shulmanaviation.com <http://www.shulmanaviation.com/>
>> www.composite-arf.com <http://www.composite-arf.com/>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>> [mailto: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> ]On Behalf Of Ken
>> Thompson
>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:36 PM
>> To: General pattern discussion
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
>>
>>
>> LOL!!!  I'll be waiting in the wings to read the comments :-)
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "JShulman" < jshulman at cfl.rr.com <mailto:jshulman at cfl.rr.com> >
>> To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >
>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 6:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
>>
>>
>>> Must be even closer to the Nats... after this is Spins...lol.
>>>
>>> Are we talking shoulder rolling or straight rolling?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Jason
>>> www.jasonshulman.com <http://www.jasonshulman.com/>
>>> www.shulmanaviation.com <http://www.shulmanaviation.com/>
>>> www.composite-arf.com <http://www.composite-arf.com/>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> [mailto: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> ]On Behalf Of Ken
>>> Thompson
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:24 PM
>>> To: johnfuqua at embarqmail.com <mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com> ; General
pattern discussion
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
>>>
>>>
>>> How can it be a snap if no pitch or break is shown?
>>>
>>> And yes...I know this comment is setting up a serious discussion :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "John Fuqua" < johnfuqua at embarqmail.com
<mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com> >
>>> To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 6:18 PM
>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
>>>
>>>
>>>> For those FAI pilots at the Harvest contest this weekend who took
the
>>>> position that the airplane need no longer show pitch or break to
enter
>>>> the
>>>> snap I invite you to para 5B.7.5 of the FAI rule book.  Looks to me

>>>> like
>>>> the
>>>> only change is that a zero is no longer appropriate but a mandatory
>>>> downgrade of more than 5 points is.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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