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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Thanks
Derek I had also considered loading a lot of down travel to the leading wing aileron
to unbalance the roll input. I don't like flipping switches but it appears to
be a necessity, at least with this airframe revision. I am about to start
ironing paint onto the new smaller stab airframe and am anxious to see how it flies.
We can fly until after 8:00 now so I will have time to try some things. The forecast
is for 5-10 cross wind today, near perfect.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jim Hiller<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
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style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Derek Koopowitz<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 16, 2008 10:11
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Snap entry in FAI</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Jim Hiller:</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Increase aileron and reduce rudder -
you've already increased elevator. That should help speed up the snap
without it yawing too much with a large amount of rudder.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On Mon, Jun
16, 2008 at 9:22 AM, J N Hiller <<a href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</a>>
wrote:</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:40.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'>Thanks Jim for the link and it's content. Great info. We finally
got some<br>
decent flying weather here in the northwest and this afternoon I wanted to<br>
work on the 45 down snap. I have changed the set-up of last year's airplane<br>
to a more forward CG and re-trimmed pitch yesterday. I like it better but<br>
that $#%^* snap appears slow and sluggish almost resembling a barrel roll,<br>
exiting on about a 35 degree line. I am already using high rate elevator for<br>
spin entry and planned to increase the travel and use it for the snap as<br>
well. I have experienced heading changes due to excessive rudder in both the<br>
45 down snap and avalanche and fear more elevator travel will cause more<br>
exit heading deviation and using more aileron may give the appearance of a<br>
fast aileron roll. Today's challenge and the judges will let me know<br>
Saturday morning.<br>
Thanks again for the link. I want to get back into some IMAC competition and<br>
have a 50-size Yak ready to fly but I need to get some quality pattern<br>
practice first.<br>
Scale airplanes snap a lot easier!<br>
Jim Hiller</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:40.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
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size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:40.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'>[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]On
Behalf Of Woodward, Jim<br>
(US SSA)<br>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:48 AM<br>
To: General pattern discussion<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI<br>
<br>
Guys,<br>
<br>
I thought the FAI changes explicitly allowed flick rolls? The rule<br>
reads, "... fuselage attitude must show a definite break and separation<br>
from the flight path."<br>
<br>
It does not say, "MUST SHOW PITCH BREAK." Please DO NOT
ERROUNIOUSLY<br>
APPLY A PASS/FAIL MAJOR DEDUCTION initial assessment to the snap roll.<br>
Watch the whole maneuver then render your score.<br>
<br>
A break and separation from the flight path simply means that the nose<br>
and tail of the plane must rotate in a conical fashion about the fight<br>
axis. Yaw, roll, and pitch can all break at the same moment if that is<br>
how the pilot does it.<br>
<br>
Hey :) some really handsome smart guy wrote some stuff at this link<br>
below about snap rolls to help clarify how they are done in IMAC.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.mini-iac.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=77" target="_blank">http://www.mini-iac.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=77</a><br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
Jim<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Ken<br>
Thompson<br>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 10:47 PM<br>
To: Ken Thompson; General pattern discussion<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI<br>
<br>
How'd I do?<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Ken Thompson" <<a href="mailto:KTHOMPSON56@satx.rr.com">KTHOMPSON56@satx.rr.com</a>><br>
To: "General pattern discussion" <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:39 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI<br>
<br>
<br>
> That would be the first part...after that better be the tail forming a<br>
<br>
> cone, or else...no it wouldn't be a snap;-)<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ----- Original Message -----<br>
> From: "JShulman" <<a href="mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com">jshulman@cfl.rr.com</a>><br>
> To: "General pattern discussion" <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 6:35 PM<br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI<br>
><br>
><br>
>> Ken,<br>
>><br>
>> Would you say that if the plane breaks in pitch it is a snap?<br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> Jason<br>
>> <a href="http://www.jasonshulman.com/" target="_blank">www.jasonshulman.com</a><br>
>> <a href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com/" target="_blank">www.shulmanaviation.com</a><br>
>> <a href="http://www.composite-arf.com/" target="_blank">www.composite-arf.com</a><br>
>><br>
>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>> From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]On
Behalf Of Ken<br>
>> Thompson<br>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:36 PM<br>
>> To: General pattern discussion<br>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> LOL!!! I'll be waiting in the wings to read the comments :-)<br>
>> ----- Original Message -----<br>
>> From: "JShulman" <<a href="mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com">jshulman@cfl.rr.com</a>><br>
>> To: "General pattern discussion" <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 6:22 PM<br>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> Must be even closer to the Nats... after this is Spins...lol.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Are we talking shoulder rolling or straight rolling?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Regards,<br>
>>> Jason<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.jasonshulman.com/" target="_blank">www.jasonshulman.com</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com/" target="_blank">www.shulmanaviation.com</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://www.composite-arf.com/" target="_blank">www.composite-arf.com</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>>> From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
>>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]On
Behalf Of Ken<br>
>>> Thompson<br>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:24 PM<br>
>>> To: <a href="mailto:johnfuqua@embarqmail.com">johnfuqua@embarqmail.com</a>;
General pattern discussion<br>
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> How can it be a snap if no pitch or break is shown?<br>
>>><br>
>>> And yes...I know this comment is setting up a serious discussion
:-)<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> ----- Original Message -----<br>
>>> From: "John Fuqua" <<a
href="mailto:johnfuqua@embarqmail.com">johnfuqua@embarqmail.com</a>><br>
>>> To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 6:18 PM<br>
>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>> For those FAI pilots at the Harvest contest this weekend who
took<br>
the<br>
>>>> position that the airplane need no longer show pitch or break
to<br>
enter<br>
>>>> the<br>
>>>> snap I invite you to para 5B.7.5 of the FAI rule book.
Looks to me<br>
<br>
>>>> like<br>
>>>> the<br>
>>>> only change is that a zero is no longer appropriate but a
mandatory<br>
>>>> downgrade of more than 5 points is.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
>>>> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
>>><br>
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