[NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI

[Derek Koopowitz]

Jim Hiller:

Increase aileron and reduce rudder - you've already increased elevator.
That should help speed up the snap without it yawing too much with a large
amount of rudder.

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:22 AM, J N Hiller <jnhiller at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Thanks Jim for the link and it's content. Great info. We finally got some
> decent flying weather here in the northwest and this afternoon I wanted to
> work on the 45 down snap. I have changed the set-up of last year's airplane
> to a more forward CG and re-trimmed pitch yesterday. I like it better but
> that $#%^* snap appears slow and sluggish almost resembling a barrel roll,
> exiting on about a 35 degree line. I am already using high rate elevator
> for
> spin entry and planned to increase the travel and use it for the snap as
> well. I have experienced heading changes due to excessive rudder in both
> the
> 45 down snap and avalanche and fear more elevator travel will cause more
> exit heading deviation and using more aileron may give the appearance of a
> fast aileron roll. Today's challenge and the judges will let me know
> Saturday morning.
> Thanks again for the link. I want to get back into some IMAC competition
> and
> have a 50-size Yak ready to fly but I need to get some quality pattern
> practice first.
> Scale airplanes snap a lot easier!
> Jim Hiller
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>  [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Woodward,
> Jim
> (US SSA)
> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:48 AM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
>
> Guys,
>
> I thought the FAI changes explicitly allowed flick rolls?  The rule
> reads, "... fuselage attitude must show a definite break and separation
> from the flight path."
>
> It does not say, "MUST SHOW PITCH BREAK."   Please DO NOT ERROUNIOUSLY
> APPLY A PASS/FAIL MAJOR DEDUCTION initial assessment to the snap roll.
> Watch the whole maneuver then render your score.
>
> A break and separation from the flight path simply means that the nose
> and tail of the plane must rotate in a conical fashion about the fight
> axis.  Yaw, roll, and pitch can all break at the same moment if that is
> how the pilot does it.
>
> Hey :) some really handsome smart guy wrote some stuff at this link
> below about snap rolls to help clarify how they are done in IMAC.
>
> http://www.mini-iac.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=77
>
> thanks,
> Jim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ken
> Thompson
> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 10:47 PM
> To: Ken Thompson; General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
>
> How'd I do?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Thompson" <KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com>
> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
>
>
> > That would be the first part...after that better be the tail forming a
>
> > cone, or else...no it wouldn't be a snap;-)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "JShulman" <jshulman at cfl.rr.com>
> > To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 6:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
> >
> >
> >> Ken,
> >>
> >> Would you say that if the plane breaks in pitch it is a snap?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Jason
> >> www.jasonshulman.com
> >> www.shulmanaviation.com
> >> www.composite-arf.com
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ken
> >> Thompson
> >> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:36 PM
> >> To: General pattern discussion
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
> >>
> >>
> >> LOL!!!  I'll be waiting in the wings to read the comments :-)
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "JShulman" <jshulman at cfl.rr.com>
> >> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 6:22 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
> >>
> >>
> >>> Must be even closer to the Nats... after this is Spins...lol.
> >>>
> >>> Are we talking shoulder rolling or straight rolling?
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Jason
> >>> www.jasonshulman.com
> >>> www.shulmanaviation.com
> >>> www.composite-arf.com
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ken
> >>> Thompson
> >>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:24 PM
> >>> To: johnfuqua at embarqmail.com; General pattern discussion
> >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> How can it be a snap if no pitch or break is shown?
> >>>
> >>> And yes...I know this comment is setting up a serious discussion :-)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "John Fuqua" <johnfuqua at embarqmail.com>
> >>> To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 6:18 PM
> >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> For those FAI pilots at the Harvest contest this weekend who took
> the
> >>>> position that the airplane need no longer show pitch or break to
> enter
> >>>> the
> >>>> snap I invite you to para 5B.7.5 of the FAI rule book.  Looks to me
>
> >>>> like
> >>>> the
> >>>> only change is that a zero is no longer appropriate but a mandatory
> >>>> downgrade of more than 5 points is.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>> Checked by AVG.
> >>> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1503 - Release Date:
> >>> 6/14/2008
> >>> 6:02 PM
> >>>
> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >>> Checked by AVG.
> >>> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1503 - Release Date:
> >>> 6/14/2008
> >>> 6:02 PM
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG.
> >> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1503 - Release Date:
> 6/14/2008
> >> 6:02 PM
> >>
> >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >> Checked by AVG.
> >> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1503 - Release Date:
> 6/14/2008
> >> 6:02 PM
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20080616/4826836f/attachment.html>