[NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: Altitude limits

Wed Jan 23 09:58:01 AKST 2008

Good points Keith.

Jay Marshall 

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Keith Hoard
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 1:34 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: Altitude limits

Perhaps the AMA should contact the FAA about getting all of the established
model fields a fixed chunk of airspace up to, say, 1000 AGL and 1/2 mile
radius.  The vast majority of model fields in the US would extend into
uncontrolled airspace so it wouldn't be a problem and then people can quit
worrying about the AC.  This would most likely end up being a simple NOTAM,
but it would finally put this issue to rest. 

There are many types of operations in uncontrolled airspace such as
full-scale aerobatics, parachuting, model rockets. . . all of them get
permission to use airspace above 400 AGL, model airplanes should get the
same authority. 

On Jan 23, 2008 10:05 AM, chris moon <cjm767driver at hotmail.com> wrote:

Here is the important excerpt from the clarification of policy letter:

"Model aircraft should be flown below 400 feet above the
surface to avoid other aircraft in flight."

There is a BIG difference as far as the feds are concerned between the words
"should" "shall" and "must".  We are not regularly above 400 feet throughout
a flight and frankly have no means of determining our altitude accurately,
so I don't see how this is any big change for us.  The intent was of course
to regulate the big UAV craft and they had to mention our models so that the
big UAV guys could not claim their planes were just hobbyist models.

Chris

James Oddino wrote: 

Begin forwarded message:

From: Bryan Hudson <gbflyer at sbcglobal.net>

Date: January 22, 2008 10:00:42 PM PST

To: James Oddino <joddino at socal.rr.com>

Subject: Re: Fwd: [NSRCA-discussion] Altitude limits

Jim,

That used to be correct up till Feburary last year. Long story short. FAA
(Advisory Circular) AC 91-57 for model airplanes has been around since 1981.
It "advises" fly models below 400 feet AGL (above ground level). Because of
the growing unmanned aircraft industry, last February the NTSB / FAA issued
a "Policy Statement" in the Federal Register officially making AC 91-57 the
"Authority" under which models will be flown. So as of last Feb. fly below
400 AGL is federal law. This information has recently been added to the
FAA's own web site, and now it looks like the new policy is being enforced. 

New regulation on FAA's web site  <http://www.faa.gov/> www.faa.gov

To fly a UAS you must have an (Experimental Airworthiness Certificate) EAC,
unless you are a hobbyist and intend to fly your model aircraft in
accordance with the guidance in AC 91-57 "Model Aircraft Operating
Standards."

In other words, if you want to fly higher than AC 91-57 allows (above 400
AGL) then you must have an EAC. EACs are not being issued to modelers so
don't even think about that.

You can find the Federal Register Policy Statement that lays this out on
this site also. 

Go to 

 <http://www.faa.gov/> www.faa.gov 

then click on:

Aircraft Tab 

Aircraft Topics - Aircraft Certification

Design Approvals

Types of Aircraft - Unmanned Aircraft

At this point click on Regulations and Policies for links to::

.         Advisory Circulars - AC 91-57 Model Aircraft Operating Standards 

.         Policies -
<http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/design_approvals/uas/reg/media/frnotic
e_uas.pdf> Federal Register Notice - Clarification of FAA Policy 

Or after Unmanned Aircraft click on FAQ for statement on FAA's web site.

Bryan

James Oddino <joddino at socal.rr.com> wrote:

Begin forwarded message:

From: Ed White <edvwhite at sbcglobal.net>

Date: January 21, 2008 1:13:55 PM PST

To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Altitude limits

Reply-To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>

It is written in FAA Advisory Circular AC 91-57, dated June 9, 1981. You can
download it from the the FAA website (www.faa.gov <http://www.faa.gov/>  and
then type AC 91-57 into the search box).

It says "Do not fly model aircraft higher than 400 feet above the surface."
This applies to any location. But because the next sentence says "When
flying aircraft within 3 miles of an airport, notify the airport operator
..." some people misinterpret the requirement as 400 feet only when within 3
miles of an airport.

The key point is that it is an ADVISORY Circular. It outlines the FAA's
preferred model aircraft operating standards, but compliance with the AC is
voluntary. An AC is not the same as a FAR (Federal Aviation Regulation). 

Ed

Mark Atwood <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com> wrote: 

It was always my understanding that we were never supposed to exceed 400 ft
and that full scale aircraft were to stay above 500ft. But I'm not sure
where that's written...

-M

On 1/21/08 2:35 PM, "James Oddino" wrote:

> I'm getting some breaking news that there is some type of advisory
> that says we shouldn't be flying above 400 feet at our field in
> Camarillo. Are there any general rules about altitude limits that we
> should be aware of? We are pretty far from the Camarillo airport and
> never get close to any full size stuff so I don't understand why there
> would be a local restriction. More to follow I'm sure.
> 
> Jim O
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
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-- 

Keith Hoard
Collierville, TN
khoard at gmail.com

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