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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Good points Keith.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p><b><i><font size=4 color=navy face="Brush Script MT"><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:"Brush Script MT";color:navy;font-weight:bold;font-style:
italic'>Jay </span></font></i></b><b><i><font size=4 color=navy
face="Brush Script MT"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Brush Script MT";
color:navy;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Marshall</span></font></i></b><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> [mailto:</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Keith Hoard<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January 23, 2008
1:34 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Fwd: Altitude limits</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Perhaps
the AMA should contact the FAA about getting all of the established model
fields a fixed chunk of airspace up to, say, 1000 AGL and 1/2 mile
radius. The vast majority of model fields in the US would extend into
uncontrolled airspace so it wouldn't be a problem and then people can quit
worrying about the AC. This would most likely end up being a simple
NOTAM, but it would finally put this issue to rest. <br>
<br>
There are many types of operations in uncontrolled airspace such as full-scale
aerobatics, parachuting, model rockets. . . all of them get permission to use
airspace above 400 AGL, model airplanes should get the same authority. </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Jan 23, 2008 10:05 AM, chris moon <<a
href="mailto:cjm767driver@hotmail.com">cjm767driver@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></font></p>
<div><span bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Here is the important excerpt from the clarification
of policy letter:<br>
<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>"Model aircraft should be flown below
400 feet above the<br>
surface to avoid other aircraft in flight."<br>
</span></b><br>
There is a BIG difference as far as the feds are concerned between the words
"should" "shall" and "must". We are not
regularly above 400 feet throughout a flight and frankly have no means of
determining our altitude accurately, so I don't see how this is any big change
for us. The intent was of course to regulate the big UAV craft and they
had to mention our models so that the big UAV guys could not claim their planes
were just hobbyist models.<br>
<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
James Oddino wrote: </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Begin forwarded message:</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
</span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:
</span></font></b><font size=4 face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Bryan
Hudson <<a href="mailto:gbflyer@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">gbflyer@sbcglobal.net</a>></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Date:
</span></font></b><font size=4 face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'>January
22, 2008 10:00:42 PM PST</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>To:
</span></font></b><font size=4 face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'>James
Oddino <<a href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com" target="_blank">joddino@socal.rr.com</a>></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Subject:
</span></font></b><b><font size=4 face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;
font-weight:bold'>Re: Fwd: [NSRCA-discussion] Altitude limits</span></font></b></p>
</div>
<div style='min-height: 14px'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Jim,</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>That used to be correct up till Feburary last year.
Long story short. FAA (Advisory Circular) AC 91-57 for model airplanes has been
around since 1981. It "advises" fly models below 400 feet AGL (above
ground level). Because of the growing unmanned aircraft industry, last February
the NTSB / FAA issued a "Policy Statement" in the Federal Register
officially making AC 91-57 the "Authority" under which models will be
flown. So as of last Feb. fly below 400 AGL is federal law. This information
has recently been added to the FAA's own web site, and now it looks like the
new policy is being enforced. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>New regulation on <span style='-moz-background-clip: -moz-initial;
-moz-background-origin: -moz-initial;-moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;
background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:
50%'>FAA</span>'s web site <a href="http://www.faa.gov/" target="_blank"
rel=nofollow><font color="#003399"><span style='color:#003399'>www.faa.gov</span></font></a></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New\000D\000A\000D\000A Roman"'>T</span></font>o fly a UAS
you must have an (Experimental Airworthiness Certificate) EAC, <u>unless </u>you
<font color="#3d3d3d"><span style='color:#3D3D3D'>are a hobbyist and intend to
fly your model aircraft in accordance with the guidance in AC 91-57 "Model
Aircraft Operating Standards."</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'>In other
words, if you want to fly higher than AC 91-57 allows (above 400 AGL) then you
must have an EAC. EACs are not being issued to modelers so don't even think
about that.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'>You can
find the Federal Register Policy Statement that lays this out on this site
also. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#3d3d3d"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#3D3D3D'>Go to
</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#3d3d3d"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#3D3D3D'><a
href="http://www.faa.gov/" target="_blank" rel=nofollow><font color=purple><span
style='color:purple'>www.faa.gov</span></font></a> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#3d3d3d"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#3D3D3D'>then
click on:</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#3d3d3d"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#3D3D3D'>Aircraft
Tab </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#3d3d3d"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#3D3D3D'>Aircraft
Topics - Aircraft Certification</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#3d3d3d"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#3D3D3D'>Design
Approvals</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#3d3d3d"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#3D3D3D'>Types
of Aircraft - Unmanned Aircraft</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#3d3d3d"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#3D3D3D'>At
this point click on Regulations and Policies for links to:</span></font><font
color="#3d3d3d"><span style='color:#3D3D3D'>:</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=2
color="#3d3d3d" face=Symbol><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;
color:#3D3D3D'>·<font size=1 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></font></span></font><font color="#3d3d3d"><span style='color:#3D3D3D'>Advisory
Circulars - AC 91-57 Model Aircraft Operating Standards </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=2
color=black face=Symbol><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;
color:black'>·<font size=1 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></font></span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'>Policies
- <a
href="http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/design_approvals/uas/reg/media/frnotice_uas.pdf"
target="_blank" title="Federal Register Notice – Clarification of FAA Policy"
rel=nofollow><font color=black><span style='color:black;text-decoration:none'>Federal
Register Notice – Clarification of FAA Policy</span></font></a> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'>Or after
Unmanned Aircraft click on FAQ for statement on FAA's web site.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'>Bryan</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=1 color=gray
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:gray'><br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>James Oddino <<a
href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com" target="_blank">joddino@socal.rr.com</a>></span></i></b>
wrote:</span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'>Begin
forwarded message:</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'><br>
<br>
</span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:
</span></font></b><font size=4 color="#3d3d3d" face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;
color:#3D3D3D'>Ed White <<a href="mailto:edvwhite@sbcglobal.net"
target="_blank">edvwhite@sbcglobal.net</a>></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Date:
</span></font></b><font size=4 color="#3d3d3d" face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;
color:#3D3D3D'>January 21, 2008 1:13:55 PM PST</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>To:
</span></font></b><font size=4 color="#3d3d3d" face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;
color:#3D3D3D'>NSRCA Mailing List <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Subject:
</span></font></b><b><font size=4 color="#3d3d3d" face=Helvetica
style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#3D3D3D;font-weight:bold'>Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Altitude limits</span></font></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Reply-To:
</span></font></b><font size=4 color="#3d3d3d" face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;
color:#3D3D3D'>NSRCA Mailing List <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='min-height: 14px'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'>It is
written in FAA Advisory Circular AC 91-57, dated June 9, 1981. You can download
it from the the FAA website (<a href="http://www.faa.gov/" target="_blank">www.faa.gov</a>
and then type AC 91-57 into the search box).<br>
<br>
It says "Do not fly model aircraft higher than 400 feet above the
surface." This applies to any location. But because the next sentence says
"When flying aircraft within 3 miles of an airport, notify the airport
operator ..." some people misinterpret the requirement as 400 feet only
when within 3 miles of an airport.<br>
<br>
The key point is that it is an ADVISORY Circular. It outlines the FAA's
preferred model aircraft operating standards, but compliance with the AC is
voluntary. An AC is not the same as a FAR (Federal Aviation Regulation). <br>
<br>
Ed<br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Mark Atwood <<a
href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com" target="_blank">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a>></span></i></b>
wrote: </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'>It was
always my understanding that we were never supposed to exceed 400 ft<br>
and that full scale aircraft were to stay above 500ft. But I'm not sure<br>
where that's written...<br>
<br>
-M<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/21/08 2:35 PM, "James Oddino" wrote:<br>
<br>
> I'm getting some breaking news that there is some type of advisory<br>
> that says we shouldn't be flying above 400 feet at our field in<br>
> Camarillo. Are there any general rules about altitude limits that we<br>
> should be aware of? We are pretty far from the Camarillo airport and<br>
> never get close to any full size stuff so I don't understand why there<br>
> would be a local restriction. More to follow I'm sure.<br>
> <br>
> Jim O<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
<br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font></p>
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