[NSRCA-discussion] Lipo Sacks

James Oddino joddino at socal.rr.com
Thu Apr 10 14:54:35 AKDT 2008


I second or third or whatever, - good equipment and procedures make  
them as safe as NiCds.

Jim O


On Apr 10, 2008, at 3:20 PM, chris moon wrote:

> Mike, I agree you are absolutely correct.  Early adopters were  
> pretty much on their own and ended up with a lot of bad results  
> until the modeling public created their own knowledge base on this  
> stuff.  Manufacturers seemed to say here you go guys - try these new  
> fangled batteries out for us in your high draw applications and let  
> us know if they work.  R/C guys were familiar with ni-cad batteries  
> which are very benign by comparison to big lipos and figured they  
> were dealing with a similar animal as far as durability and ability  
> to withstand abuse.  Past problems were sure inevitable since the  
> knowledge base and safer equipment did not exist.  I just think  
> those running around today implying that you need a concrete lined  
> bomb resistant barrel and flame retardant suit on in order to handle  
> these batteries are just misinformed about how safe these things CAN  
> BE if handled properly.  When they point to incidents that happened  
> when these first came out as evidence, it's just not a valid  
> comparison.  I will give them that if you want to buy cheapie EBay  
> lipos of unknown manufacture and questionable quality of  
> construction, there would be a higher risk to using these batteries  
> and I would be more wary of them during charge or discharge.
>
> Now about the FAA....where do I start
>
> Chris
>
> Mike Hester wrote:
>>
>> My 2 cents....not an arguement by any means, just another angle.
>> The problem with lipos is exactly what you mentioned. With a twist.
>> They simply introduced them to market without enough research and  
>> development for our specific application. you mention proper  
>> equipment, but back then there really wasn't any proper equipment.  
>> And until you see the results of what those things CAN do, a normal  
>> average guy can easily get lazy and careless. Well guess what  
>> happened?
>> Back then there was no real balancing. no good chargers capable of  
>> properly keeping the packs happy without a LOT of user experience  
>> and research on his own.
>> I'm talking about the first year or so that Li-ions and lipos were  
>> really brought to our market. This is the time where most of the  
>> horror stories are based. I was semi-involved in one, but I can  
>> tell you with a fair bit of certainty that it was not user error.  
>> it was simply in my opinion, and in a lot of others, a bad design  
>> coupled with possibly shoddy manufacturing.
>> However...nowadays? Pffffft. take a few simple precautions, know  
>> what you're doing, the info is out there and the equipment to  
>> support it. just like spinning props, gasoline, nicads, you name  
>> it. Safety technology like FAA regs (which I'm sure you know all  
>> too well LOL) are written in blood. Yep there have been fires,  
>> lots. But in general nowadays if you hear about something like  
>> that, it was probably user error. In the beginning, it was a whole  
>> different kettle of fish.
>> heck I have lithiums in everything I own except my starter for my  
>> YS. And that will probably change this year! They are as safe as  
>> anything else now because we now have the proper equipment and  
>> safety precautions to make it that way. if they had waited one more  
>> year, this might be a non issue.
>> -Mike
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: chris moon
>> To: chad at f3acanada.org ; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:54 AM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lipo Sacks
>>
>> Walter,
>> I'm with Chad on this.
>> The key is to have good equipment that will monitor the batteries  
>> and automatically shut down if there is a problem. Too many  
>> sensational stories on the internet about some battery fire etc  
>> have a lot of unknowns in their stories. Have you ever seen one  
>> where they said "it was my fault, I did XYZ that I should not have  
>> done"? No, everyone says, wow it just blew up - then the marketing  
>> guys come out with a safety product to fix a problem that probably  
>> never would exist with good equipment and charging techniques. Why  
>> don't we have bunkers and sacks for cans of gasoline? Is there not  
>> a chance that it could explode too? We know that if we goof around  
>> carelessly with gasoline, it will go boom - so we are careful. Same  
>> with lipos.
>> I could be wrong here, but I too have hundreds of charges on big  
>> lipos and have never had any issue. The key is just be careful and  
>> check your charge settings and use good equipment with safety cut  
>> offs. Can it hurt to use these bunkers and sacks, of course not.  
>> They give you another layer of protection but I really don't think  
>> they are that necessary.
>> Sorry, but I really think the hype is over done with lipos.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> PS - no more coffee for me today - I better go fly and relax some
>>
>>
>> Chad Northeast wrote:
>>>
>>> Walter
>>>
>>> The only safe way to charge lipos is to ensure you have a safe  
>>> charger that monitors cell voltages like the TP 1010, or the  
>>> Schulze's. Or use a balancer like the Flightpower etc that tie  
>>> into the charge line. This way if anything goes screwy with the  
>>> charge they shut it down, lipos don't light on fire for no reason,  
>>> its usually because you overcharged them and they got hot and  
>>> burst. Or you are charging a damaged pack, and usually common  
>>> sense will tell you that is not a good idea.
>>>
>>> ALWAYS babysit the charge, forget bunkers, sacks etc. if you  
>>> monitor the charge there is no need for these because you will  
>>> always be aware of the state of the packs as they are charging. In  
>>> my opinion using sacks etc. is a band aid for unsafe charging  
>>> practices. I am sure someone will flame me for this but I have  
>>> been charging these big packs for 4 years, I must have 1000's of  
>>> charges behind me and "touch wood" I have never had a single  
>>> issue, but I watch my chargers. In the early days before we had  
>>> all this fancy monitoring stuff I had to pull packs off chargers  
>>> because things were going bad.
>>>
>>> Chad
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Walter Nasse
>>> Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 9:09 pm
>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Lipo Sacks
>>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>>
>>> > BlankDoes anyone use the Lipo Sack for charging and transporting
>>> > batterypacks?
>>> >
>>> > What other alternatives are there? Ammo Boxes? Flour Tins?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> > Walter
>>> >
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