[NSRCA-discussion] Lipo Sacks
James Oddino
joddino at socal.rr.com
Thu Apr 10 14:54:35 AKDT 2008
I second or third or whatever, - good equipment and procedures make
them as safe as NiCds.
Jim O
On Apr 10, 2008, at 3:20 PM, chris moon wrote:
> Mike, I agree you are absolutely correct. Early adopters were
> pretty much on their own and ended up with a lot of bad results
> until the modeling public created their own knowledge base on this
> stuff. Manufacturers seemed to say here you go guys - try these new
> fangled batteries out for us in your high draw applications and let
> us know if they work. R/C guys were familiar with ni-cad batteries
> which are very benign by comparison to big lipos and figured they
> were dealing with a similar animal as far as durability and ability
> to withstand abuse. Past problems were sure inevitable since the
> knowledge base and safer equipment did not exist. I just think
> those running around today implying that you need a concrete lined
> bomb resistant barrel and flame retardant suit on in order to handle
> these batteries are just misinformed about how safe these things CAN
> BE if handled properly. When they point to incidents that happened
> when these first came out as evidence, it's just not a valid
> comparison. I will give them that if you want to buy cheapie EBay
> lipos of unknown manufacture and questionable quality of
> construction, there would be a higher risk to using these batteries
> and I would be more wary of them during charge or discharge.
>
> Now about the FAA....where do I start
>
> Chris
>
> Mike Hester wrote:
>>
>> My 2 cents....not an arguement by any means, just another angle.
>> The problem with lipos is exactly what you mentioned. With a twist.
>> They simply introduced them to market without enough research and
>> development for our specific application. you mention proper
>> equipment, but back then there really wasn't any proper equipment.
>> And until you see the results of what those things CAN do, a normal
>> average guy can easily get lazy and careless. Well guess what
>> happened?
>> Back then there was no real balancing. no good chargers capable of
>> properly keeping the packs happy without a LOT of user experience
>> and research on his own.
>> I'm talking about the first year or so that Li-ions and lipos were
>> really brought to our market. This is the time where most of the
>> horror stories are based. I was semi-involved in one, but I can
>> tell you with a fair bit of certainty that it was not user error.
>> it was simply in my opinion, and in a lot of others, a bad design
>> coupled with possibly shoddy manufacturing.
>> However...nowadays? Pffffft. take a few simple precautions, know
>> what you're doing, the info is out there and the equipment to
>> support it. just like spinning props, gasoline, nicads, you name
>> it. Safety technology like FAA regs (which I'm sure you know all
>> too well LOL) are written in blood. Yep there have been fires,
>> lots. But in general nowadays if you hear about something like
>> that, it was probably user error. In the beginning, it was a whole
>> different kettle of fish.
>> heck I have lithiums in everything I own except my starter for my
>> YS. And that will probably change this year! They are as safe as
>> anything else now because we now have the proper equipment and
>> safety precautions to make it that way. if they had waited one more
>> year, this might be a non issue.
>> -Mike
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: chris moon
>> To: chad at f3acanada.org ; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:54 AM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lipo Sacks
>>
>> Walter,
>> I'm with Chad on this.
>> The key is to have good equipment that will monitor the batteries
>> and automatically shut down if there is a problem. Too many
>> sensational stories on the internet about some battery fire etc
>> have a lot of unknowns in their stories. Have you ever seen one
>> where they said "it was my fault, I did XYZ that I should not have
>> done"? No, everyone says, wow it just blew up - then the marketing
>> guys come out with a safety product to fix a problem that probably
>> never would exist with good equipment and charging techniques. Why
>> don't we have bunkers and sacks for cans of gasoline? Is there not
>> a chance that it could explode too? We know that if we goof around
>> carelessly with gasoline, it will go boom - so we are careful. Same
>> with lipos.
>> I could be wrong here, but I too have hundreds of charges on big
>> lipos and have never had any issue. The key is just be careful and
>> check your charge settings and use good equipment with safety cut
>> offs. Can it hurt to use these bunkers and sacks, of course not.
>> They give you another layer of protection but I really don't think
>> they are that necessary.
>> Sorry, but I really think the hype is over done with lipos.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> PS - no more coffee for me today - I better go fly and relax some
>>
>>
>> Chad Northeast wrote:
>>>
>>> Walter
>>>
>>> The only safe way to charge lipos is to ensure you have a safe
>>> charger that monitors cell voltages like the TP 1010, or the
>>> Schulze's. Or use a balancer like the Flightpower etc that tie
>>> into the charge line. This way if anything goes screwy with the
>>> charge they shut it down, lipos don't light on fire for no reason,
>>> its usually because you overcharged them and they got hot and
>>> burst. Or you are charging a damaged pack, and usually common
>>> sense will tell you that is not a good idea.
>>>
>>> ALWAYS babysit the charge, forget bunkers, sacks etc. if you
>>> monitor the charge there is no need for these because you will
>>> always be aware of the state of the packs as they are charging. In
>>> my opinion using sacks etc. is a band aid for unsafe charging
>>> practices. I am sure someone will flame me for this but I have
>>> been charging these big packs for 4 years, I must have 1000's of
>>> charges behind me and "touch wood" I have never had a single
>>> issue, but I watch my chargers. In the early days before we had
>>> all this fancy monitoring stuff I had to pull packs off chargers
>>> because things were going bad.
>>>
>>> Chad
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Walter Nasse
>>> Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 9:09 pm
>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Lipo Sacks
>>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>>
>>> > BlankDoes anyone use the Lipo Sack for charging and transporting
>>> > batterypacks?
>>> >
>>> > What other alternatives are there? Ammo Boxes? Flour Tins?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> > Walter
>>> >
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