<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I second or third or whatever, - good equipment and procedures make them as safe as NiCds. <div><br></div><div>Jim O</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><html>On Apr 10, 2008, at 3:20 PM, chris moon wrote:</html><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div class="hmmessage" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><span bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">Mike, I agree you are absolutely correct. Early adopters were pretty much on their own and ended up with a lot of bad results until the modeling public created their own knowledge base on this stuff. Manufacturers seemed to say here you go guys - try these new fangled batteries out for us in your high draw applications and let us know if they work. R/C guys were familiar with ni-cad batteries which are very benign by comparison to big lipos and figured they were dealing with a similar animal as far as durability and ability to withstand abuse. Past problems were sure inevitable since the knowledge base and safer equipment did not exist. I just think those running around today implying that you need a concrete lined bomb resistant barrel and flame retardant suit on in order to handle these batteries are just misinformed about how safe these things CAN BE if handled properly. When they point to incidents that happened when these first came out as evidence, it's just not a valid comparison. I will give them that if you want to buy cheapie EBay lipos of unknown manufacture and questionable quality of construction, there would be a higher risk to using these batteries and I would be more wary of them during charge or discharge.<br><br>Now about the FAA....where do I start<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>Chris<br><br>Mike Hester wrote:<blockquote cite="mid:001a01c89b2b$d8e03350$0202a8c0@Sanity" type="cite"><div><font face="Arial">My 2 cents....not an arguement by any means, just another angle.</font></div><div></div><div><font face="Arial">The problem with lipos is exactly what you mentioned. With a twist.</font></div><div></div><div><font face="Arial">They simply introduced them to market without enough research and development for our specific application. you mention proper equipment, but back then there really wasn't any proper equipment. And until you see the results of what those things CAN do, a normal average guy can easily get lazy and careless. Well guess what happened?</font></div><div></div><div><font face="Arial">Back then there was no real balancing. no good chargers capable of properly keeping the packs happy without a LOT of user experience and research on his own.</font></div><div></div><div><font face="Arial">I'm talking about the first year or so that Li-ions and lipos were really brought to our market. This is the time where most of the horror stories are based. I was semi-involved in one, but I can tell you with a fair bit of certainty that it was not user error. it was simply in my opinion, and in a lot of others, a bad design coupled with possibly shoddy manufacturing.</font></div><div></div><div><font face="Arial">However...nowadays? Pffffft. take a few simple precautions, know what you're doing, the info is out there and the equipment to support it. just like spinning props, gasoline, nicads, you name it. Safety technology like FAA regs (which I'm sure you know all too well LOL) are written in blood. Yep there have been fires, lots. But in general nowadays if you hear about something like that, it was probably user error. In the beginning, it was a whole different kettle of fish.</font></div><div></div><div><font face="Arial">heck I have lithiums in everything I own except my starter for my YS. And that will probably change this year! They are as safe as anything else now because we now have the proper equipment and safety precautions to make it that way. if they had waited one more year, this might be a non issue.</font></div><div></div><div><font face="Arial">-Mike</font></div><blockquote style="border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; ">----- Original Message -----</div><div style="background-image: none; background-repeat: repeat; background-attachment: scroll; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; background-position: 0% 50%; "><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" title="cjm767driver@hotmail.com" href="mailto:cjm767driver@hotmail.com">chris moon</a></div><div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; "><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" title="chad@f3acanada.org" href="mailto:chad@f3acanada.org">chad@f3acanada.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></div><div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; "><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:54 AM</div><div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; "><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lipo Sacks</div><div><br></div><span text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">Walter,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>I'm with Chad on this.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>The key is to have good equipment that will monitor the batteries and automatically shut down if there is a problem. Too many sensational stories on the internet about some battery fire etc have a lot of unknowns in their stories. Have you ever seen one where they said "it was my fault, I did XYZ that I should not have done"? No, everyone says, wow it just blew up - then the marketing guys come out with a safety product to fix a problem that probably never would exist with good equipment and charging techniques. Why don't we have bunkers and sacks for cans of gasoline? Is there not a chance that it could explode too? We know that if we goof around carelessly with gasoline, it will go boom - so we are careful. Same with lipos.<br>I could be wrong here, but I too have hundreds of charges on big lipos and have never had any issue. The key is just be careful and check your charge settings and use good equipment with safety cut offs. Can it hurt to use these bunkers and sacks, of course not. They give you another layer of protection but I really don't think they are that necessary.<br>Sorry, but I really think the hype is over done with lipos.<br><br>Chris<br><br>PS - no more coffee for me today - I better go fly and relax some<br><br><br>Chad Northeast wrote:<blockquote cite="mid:d0fde1d9302a9.47fddb1e@shaw.ca" type="cite">Walter<br><br>The only safe way to charge lipos is to ensure you have a safe charger that monitors cell voltages like the TP 1010, or the Schulze's. Or use a balancer like the Flightpower etc that tie into the charge line. This way if anything goes screwy with the charge they shut it down, lipos don't light on fire for no reason, its usually because you overcharged them and they got hot and burst. Or you are charging a damaged pack, and usually common sense will tell you that is not a good idea.<br><br>ALWAYS babysit the charge, forget bunkers, sacks etc. if you monitor the charge there is no need for these because you will always be aware of the state of the packs as they are charging. In my opinion using sacks etc. is a band aid for unsafe charging practices. I am sure someone will flame me for this but I have been charging these big packs for 4 years, I must have 1000's of charges behind me and "touch wood" I have never had a single issue, but I watch my chargers. In the early days before we had all this fancy monitoring stuff I had to pull packs off chargers because things were going bad.<br><br>Chad<br><br>----- Original Message -----<br>From: Walter Nasse<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wwnasse@figment.ca"><wwnasse@figment.ca></wwnasse@figment.ca></a><br>Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 9:09 pm<br>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Lipo Sacks<br>To: NSRCA Mailing List<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a><br><br>> BlankDoes anyone use the Lipo Sack for charging and transporting<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> batterypacks?<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> What other alternatives are there? Ammo Boxes? Flour Tins?<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Thanks,<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Walter<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> No virus found in this outgoing message.<br>> Checked by AVG.<br>> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1367 - Release<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Date: 4/9/2008<br>> 7:10 AM<br>><pre wrap=""><hr size="4" width="90%">_______________________________________________
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