[NSRCA-discussion] Lipo Sacks
Walter Nasse
wwnasse at figment.ca
Thu Apr 10 16:08:12 AKDT 2008
Thanks for all the input everyone. I have purchased the TP1010 with the 210
Balancer and have researched the crap out of the setup that I have. I agree
that proper procedures are important as with the use of any type of
equipment. The lipo Sack was something I saw at the local hobby store.
This got me thinking about the the whole safety issue again. I am new to
all this LIPO stuff and find the technology very exciting and I thank people
like Chad for their experience and being pioneers. This makes the learning
curve for people like me easier to take.
Thanks again,
Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of James Oddino
Sent: April 10, 2008 4:54 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lipo Sacks
I second or third or whatever, - good equipment and procedures make them
as safe as NiCds.
Jim O
On Apr 10, 2008, at 3:20 PM, chris moon wrote:
Mike, I agree you are absolutely correct. Early adopters were pretty
much on their own and ended up with a lot of bad results until the modeling
public created their own knowledge base on this stuff. Manufacturers seemed
to say here you go guys - try these new fangled batteries out for us in your
high draw applications and let us know if they work. R/C guys were familiar
with ni-cad batteries which are very benign by comparison to big lipos and
figured they were dealing with a similar animal as far as durability and
ability to withstand abuse. Past problems were sure inevitable since the
knowledge base and safer equipment did not exist. I just think those
running around today implying that you need a concrete lined bomb resistant
barrel and flame retardant suit on in order to handle these batteries are
just misinformed about how safe these things CAN BE if handled properly.
When they point to incidents that happened when these first came out as
evidence, it's just not a valid comparison. I will give them that if you
want to buy cheapie EBay lipos of unknown manufacture and questionable
quality of construction, there would be a higher risk to using these
batteries and I would be more wary of them during charge or discharge.
Now about the FAA....where do I start
Chris
Mike Hester wrote:
My 2 cents....not an arguement by any means, just another angle.
The problem with lipos is exactly what you mentioned. With a twist.
They simply introduced them to market without enough research and
development for our specific application. you mention proper equipment, but
back then there really wasn't any proper equipment. And until you see the
results of what those things CAN do, a normal average guy can easily get
lazy and careless. Well guess what happened?
Back then there was no real balancing. no good chargers capable of
properly keeping the packs happy without a LOT of user experience and
research on his own.
I'm talking about the first year or so that Li-ions and lipos were
really brought to our market. This is the time where most of the horror
stories are based. I was semi-involved in one, but I can tell you with a
fair bit of certainty that it was not user error. it was simply in my
opinion, and in a lot of others, a bad design coupled with possibly shoddy
manufacturing.
However...nowadays? Pffffft. take a few simple precautions, know what
you're doing, the info is out there and the equipment to support it. just
like spinning props, gasoline, nicads, you name it. Safety technology like
FAA regs (which I'm sure you know all too well LOL) are written in blood.
Yep there have been fires, lots. But in general nowadays if you hear about
something like that, it was probably user error. In the beginning, it was a
whole different kettle of fish.
heck I have lithiums in everything I own except my starter for my YS.
And that will probably change this year! They are as safe as anything else
now because we now have the proper equipment and safety precautions to make
it that way. if they had waited one more year, this might be a non issue.
-Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: chris moon
To: chad at f3acanada.org ; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lipo Sacks
Walter,
I'm with Chad on this.
The key is to have good equipment that will monitor the batteries
and automatically shut down if there is a problem. Too many sensational
stories on the internet about some battery fire etc have a lot of unknowns
in their stories. Have you ever seen one where they said "it was my fault, I
did XYZ that I should not have done"? No, everyone says, wow it just blew
up - then the marketing guys come out with a safety product to fix a problem
that probably never would exist with good equipment and charging techniques.
Why don't we have bunkers and sacks for cans of gasoline? Is there not a
chance that it could explode too? We know that if we goof around carelessly
with gasoline, it will go boom - so we are careful. Same with lipos.
I could be wrong here, but I too have hundreds of charges on big
lipos and have never had any issue. The key is just be careful and check
your charge settings and use good equipment with safety cut offs. Can it
hurt to use these bunkers and sacks, of course not. They give you another
layer of protection but I really don't think they are that necessary.
Sorry, but I really think the hype is over done with lipos.
Chris
PS - no more coffee for me today - I better go fly and relax some
Chad Northeast wrote:
Walter
The only safe way to charge lipos is to ensure you have a safe
charger that monitors cell voltages like the TP 1010, or the Schulze's. Or
use a balancer like the Flightpower etc that tie into the charge line. This
way if anything goes screwy with the charge they shut it down, lipos don't
light on fire for no reason, its usually because you overcharged them and
they got hot and burst. Or you are charging a damaged pack, and usually
common sense will tell you that is not a good idea.
ALWAYS babysit the charge, forget bunkers, sacks etc. if you
monitor the charge there is no need for these because you will always be
aware of the state of the packs as they are charging. In my opinion using
sacks etc. is a band aid for unsafe charging practices. I am sure someone
will flame me for this but I have been charging these big packs for 4 years,
I must have 1000's of charges behind me and "touch wood" I have never had a
single issue, but I watch my chargers. In the early days before we had all
this fancy monitoring stuff I had to pull packs off chargers because things
were going bad.
Chad
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Nasse
Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 9:09 pm
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Lipo Sacks
To: NSRCA Mailing List
> BlankDoes anyone use the Lipo Sack for charging and transporting
> batterypacks?
>
> What other alternatives are there? Ammo Boxes? Flour Tins?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Walter
>
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