[NSRCA-discussion] Lipo Sacks

Thu Apr 10 14:20:51 AKDT 2008

Mike, I agree you are absolutely correct.  Early adopters were pretty
much on their own and ended up with a lot of bad results until the
modeling public created their own knowledge base on this stuff. 
Manufacturers seemed to say here you go guys - try these new fangled
batteries out for us in your high draw applications and let us know if
they work.  R/C guys were familiar with ni-cad batteries which are very
benign by comparison to big lipos and figured they were dealing with a
similar animal as far as durability and ability to withstand abuse. 
Past problems were sure inevitable since the knowledge base and safer
equipment did not exist.  I just think those running around today
implying that you need a concrete lined bomb resistant barrel and flame
retardant suit on in order to handle these batteries are just
misinformed about how safe these things CAN BE if handled properly. 
When they point to incidents that happened when these first came out as
evidence, it's just not a valid comparison.  I will give them that if
you want to buy cheapie EBay lipos of unknown manufacture and
questionable quality of construction, there would be a higher risk to
using these batteries and I would be more wary of them during charge or
discharge.

Now about the FAA....where do I start 

Chris

Mike Hester wrote:

  My 2 cents....not an arguement by any means,
just another angle.

  The problem with lipos is exactly what you
mentioned. With a twist.

  They simply introduced them to market without
enough research and development for our specific application. you
mention proper equipment, but back then there really wasn't any proper
equipment. And until you see the results of what those things CAN do, a
normal average guy can easily get lazy and careless. Well guess what
happened?

  Back then there was no real balancing. no
good chargers capable of properly keeping the packs happy without a LOT
of user experience and research on his own.

  I'm talking about the first year or so that
Li-ions and lipos were really brought to our market. This is the time
where most of the horror stories are based. I was semi-involved in one,
but I can tell you with a fair bit of certainty that it was not user
error. it was simply in my opinion, and in a lot of others, a bad
design coupled with possibly shoddy manufacturing.

  However...nowadays? Pffffft. take a few
simple precautions, know what you're doing, the info is out there and
the equipment to support it. just like spinning props, gasoline,
nicads, you name it. Safety technology like FAA regs (which I'm sure
you know all too well LOL) are written in blood. Yep there have been
fires, lots. But in general nowadays if you hear about something like
that, it was probably user error. In the beginning, it was a whole
different kettle of fish. 

  heck I have lithiums in everything I own
except my starter for my YS. And that will probably change this year!
They are as safe as anything else now because we now have the proper
equipment and safety precautions to make it that way. if they had
waited one more year, this might be a non issue.

  -Mike

    -----
Original Message ----- 
    From:
    chris moon 
    To:
    chad at f3acanada.org ; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org

    Sent:
Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:54 AM
    Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lipo Sacks

    Walter, 

I'm with Chad on this. 

The key is to have good equipment that will monitor the batteries and
automatically shut down if there is a problem. Too many sensational
stories on the internet about some battery fire etc have a lot of
unknowns in their stories. Have you ever seen one where they said "it
was my fault, I did XYZ that I should not have done"? No, everyone
says, wow it just blew up - then the marketing guys come out with a
safety product to fix a problem that probably never would exist with
good equipment and charging techniques. Why don't we have bunkers and
sacks for cans of gasoline? Is there not a chance that it could explode
too? We know that if we goof around carelessly with gasoline, it will
go boom - so we are careful. Same with lipos.

I could be wrong here, but I too have hundreds of charges on big lipos
and have never had any issue. The key is just be careful and check your
charge settings and use good equipment with safety cut offs. Can it
hurt to use these bunkers and sacks, of course not. They give you
another layer of protection but I really don't think they are that
necessary.

Sorry, but I really think the hype is over done with lipos.

Chris

PS - no more coffee for me today - I better go fly and relax some

Chad Northeast wrote:
    Walter

The only safe way to charge lipos is to ensure you have a safe charger
that monitors cell voltages like the TP 1010, or the Schulze's. Or use
a balancer like the Flightpower etc that tie into the charge line. This
way if anything goes screwy with the charge they shut it down, lipos
don't light on fire for no reason, its usually because you overcharged
them and they got hot and burst. Or you are charging a damaged pack,
and usually common sense will tell you that is not a good idea.

ALWAYS babysit the charge, forget bunkers, sacks etc. if you monitor
the charge there is no need for these because you will always be aware
of the state of the packs as they are charging. In my opinion using
sacks etc. is a band aid for unsafe charging practices. I am sure
someone will flame me for this but I have been charging these big packs
for 4 years, I must have 1000's of charges behind me and "touch wood" I
have never had a single issue, but I watch my chargers. In the early
days before we had all this fancy monitoring stuff I had to pull packs
off chargers because things were going bad.

Chad

----- Original Message -----

From: Walter Nasse 

Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 9:09 pm

Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Lipo Sacks

To: NSRCA Mailing List 

> BlankDoes anyone use the Lipo Sack for charging and transporting 

> batterypacks?

> 

> What other alternatives are there? Ammo Boxes? Flour Tins?

> 

> Thanks,

> 

> Walter

> 

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> Checked by AVG.

> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1367 - Release 

> Date: 4/9/2008

> 7:10 AM

>

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