[NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
John Gayer
jgghome at comcast.net
Wed Aug 15 17:00:24 AKDT 2007
Gene,
my statement was tongue in cheek. Of course the current rules make an
exception for Masters.What I didn't know was that FAI is an Official AMA
Class. I assumed it wasn't because we have to go to a separate rulebook
to figure out how to fly it. As an AMA class it becomes even harder to
justify the advancement exception.
John
Gene Maurice wrote:
> For those that haven't read it, please read the rulebook.
>
>
>
> The applicable sections are:
>
>
>
> *7. Pattern event classes. *The Pattern event shall
>
> be divided into five (5) classes. The first four (4)
>
> shall (in order of increasing difficulty) be
>
> referred to as Sportsman, Intermediate,
>
> Advanced, and Masters. The fifth class shall be
>
> referred to as the FAI class. The Sportsman class
>
> is supplemental (see Supplemental and
>
> Provisional Rules, page 2). Competitors must be
>
> advised prior to the start of the contest of any
>
> planned deviations from standard AMA rules
>
> pertaining to the events they have entered.
>
>
>
> *8.2. *A contestant will be mandatorily
>
> advanced through the classes as follows: A flier
>
> must move out of the Sportsman class at the end
>
> of that calendar year if he places first, second, or
>
> third, and above at least four (4) other fliers
>
> (having recorded an official flight) in any
>
> sanctioned Pattern class contest. For
>
> Intermediate and Advanced fliers, advancement
>
> takes place through the accumulation of points.
>
> In these classes, contestants receive points
>
> according to their finishing place in every contest
>
> they compete in. For fliers finishing third or
>
> below in a given contest, they will receive points
>
> equal to the number of official (having recorded
>
> an official flight) fliers they beat. The second
>
> place winner will receive points equal to twice
>
> the number of official fliers he beats, and the
>
> first place winner will receive points equal to
>
> three times the number of official fliers he beats.
>
> The points each contestant receives go into his
>
> cumulative record.
>
>
>
>
>
> *8.2.5. *There is no mandatory
>
> advancement into FAI from the Masters class.
>
> Contestants may enter their current AMA class
>
> or the FAI class at any contest but not both.
>
>
>
> *8.3. *Each Pattern contestant is
>
> responsible for maintaining an accurate record of
>
> his own classification points. Handy wallet size
>
> Classification Advancement Record forms are
>
> available upon request from AMA HQ; please
>
> include a preaddressed and stamped return
>
> envelope. CDs of meets having RC Pattern
>
> events are also provided with a small supply of
>
> such forms.
>
>
>
>
>
> Gene Maurice
>
> gene.mauirce at sgmservice.com <mailto:gene.mauirce at sgmservice.com>
>
> Plano, Texas
>
> AMA 3408 NSRCA 877
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *John
> Gayer
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:13 PM
> *To:* NSRCA Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
>
>
>
> That must mean the progression rules are in effect for all AMA
> classes, right? Including 406?
>
> Tim Taylor wrote:
>
> FAI is class 406, an AMA Class, Just checked the rule book.
>
>
>
> http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/rulebooks/RC%20Aerobatics.pdf
>
> */Fred Huber <fhhuber at clearwire.net> <mailto:fhhuber at clearwire.net>/*
> wrote:
>
> In that case... there's no support for offering FAI class at an
> AMA sanctioned event.
>
>
>
> Its not an AMA class. Have a seperate contest.
>
>
>
> That worm turns 2 ways.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Ken Thompson <mailto:mrandmrst at comcast.net>
>
> *To:* NSRCA Mailing List
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:57 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
> selection?
>
>
>
> The bottom line is this...the AMA has 4 classes, the top level
> being Masters. FAI is an international F3A class, not a AMA
> class..."in my opinion" there can never be a mandatory
> progression from an AMA SIG class to an international class.
>
>
>
> As for your question, my logic should, and does, apply to
> every class controlled by the AMA...which is what I'm talking
> about.
>
>
>
> Ken
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* John Gayer <mailto:jgghome at comcast.net>
>
> *To:* NSRCA Mailing List
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:38 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in
> class selection?
>
>
>
> Why does this apply to every class except Masters??
> Aren't there better flyers available to learn from in FAI? :)
> John
>
> Ken Thompson wrote:
>
>Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!!! You will only get better if you do one of two things, 1. Fly against people that are better than you, obviously paying attention to their flights. 2. Have a pilot that is better than you willing to coach you. I've been blessed with having both...any contest I go to in D6 will have pilots that are better than I am, and I have Archie as a coach to help me through the little things. BTW: I fully expect to be flying Masters in 6 or 7 years. That will put me at 54 or 55 years old when I make the move. Personally I have no desire to go to contests and come in 1st or 2nd on a regular basis, AND stay in that class...it simply won't make me a better pilot. My goal is to
>
> get better every year, with hard work and patience, it will happen. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: <rcpattern at stx.rr.com> <mailto:rcpattern at stx.rr.com> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
>
>>I take exception to this. FAI and Masters are not related. I have been flying masters several years, finishing as high as second this year at the NATS. Yes, I'm coming back next year in Masters. I have a goal of winning the nats before I move up. I can be realistic...at some point with enough practice I might be able to crack the finals in FAI at the NATS, but I'm smart enough to know that realistically winning FAI isnt going to happen. I
>>
>> would also argue that the guys that have been flying masters for years, just raise the bar. I know in different areas I've flown around the country, these are the guys that make guys fly better. Show up in District 6 sometime, and fly Masters...you'll definitely get better. 6 of the top 10 at the NATS were D6. The means, guy that finished in the top 10 at the NATS in what is probably top to bottom the most competitive class have trouble getting wood at a local contest. I can promise you though, the guys that fly here have greatly improved their flying than they would have in other parts of the country. Glen has set the bar here for a while, and I know the other guys are pushing to catch him, and if you look now at local contest scores, it is getting closer. At any given time down here in D6, I'd say 6 or 7 guys can take a round in masters. Now that makes it fun. I know when I was flying in D4 last year. Every contest I went to, was Verne K, and
>>
>> Steve Miller....I knew I'd better put up great flights every flight and this makes you a better pilot. I think you should try moving up...take a year of the low 900's, and then see where you are the following year. I bet you start moving up and before you know it you would be right there in the mix. This is a competitive activity and the only way you improve is flying against people who are better than you. Arch ----- Original Message ----- From: John Gayer <jgghome at comcast.net> <mailto:jgghome at comcast.net> Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:41 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection? To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>
>>>Ron, I take exception to those rules. There should be only one destination class. Why shouldn't
>>>
>>> there be a mandatory move from Masters to F3A? They are just two patterns with a natural progression as there is between Advanced and Masters. Parking and sandbagging is a mental state, not a rules violation. john Ron Van Putte wrote:
>>>
>>>>The Master class is the top AMA class and there is no mandatory
>>>>
>>>move
>>>
>>>>from the Master class to F3A, so how can there be "parkers" or "sandbaggers"? Ron Van Putte On Aug 15, 2007, at 2:10 PM, John Gayer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>how about changing the AMA advancemant rule and keep it very
>>>>>
>>>simple?>> Your first contest of the year will determine your class for the
>>>
>>>>>year. You may go up one class at any time during
>>>>>
>>>>> the year but
>>>>>
>>>may not
>>>
>>>>>go back down during the year. At the start of the next year you
>>>>>
>>>may
>>>
>>>>>drop back one class at your option, stay where you are or go up
>>>>>
>>>a class.
>>>
>>>>>This is simple enough that your fellow competitiors will know
>>>>>
>>>if you
>>>
>>>>>are following the rules. It will also be up to your fellow competitiors to insure that you are not sandbagging. I also feel strongly that sandbagging in Masters should not be allowed. If you disregard Sportsman, then
>>>>>
>>>>> half of the classes
>>>>>
>>>allow
>>>
>>>>>parking. Obviously, F3A has to be a parking lot but I see no
>>>>>
>>>reason
>>>
>>>>>to allow this behavior in Masters. As a competant advanced
>>>>>
>>>pilot of
>>>
>>>>>somewhat advanced years, I have very little interest in moving
>>>>>
>>>to
>>>
>>>>>Masters in order to spend the rest of my pattern years trying
>>>>>
>>>to
>>>
>>>>>break 900 against the
>>>>>
>>>>> parkers. I fail to see the logic in having two destination classes.
>>>>>
>>>Shouldn't
>>>
>>>>>we all aspire to progress to FAI? The current Masters schedule
>>>>>
>>>is
>>>
>>>>>designed as a stepping stone to Masters. Let's use it that way. John Gayer NSRCA 632 BUDDYonRC at aol.com <mailto:BUDDYonRC at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>There was a proposal on the last rules cycle that would allow
>>>>>>
>>>a
>>>
>>>>>>person to move up and test his ability then move back if he
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>had not
>>>
>>>>>>attained the skills required for the higher class. I
>>>>>>
>>>personally
>>>
>>>>>>think it is a good idea and I also see no need for the point
>>>>>>
>>>system
>>>
>>>>>>like someone said if someone abuses the privilege we can
>>>>>>
>>>solicit
>>>
>>>>>>Earl and four other guys his size to take him behind the barn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>and
>>>
>>>>>>splain to him why he will be moving up. I believe peer
>>>>>>
>>>pressure is
>>>
>>>>>>all the control we need. I think this is worth a try. For those who have the ability and desire to achieve a spot at
>>>>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>>>>top I don't see that we have a problem. Buddy ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>---------
>>>
>>>>>>Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com
>>>>>>
>>><http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?
>>>
>>ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982>.>>>
>>
>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>--------
>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>------
>>>
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>>>>
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>>
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