[NSRCA-dist7] FAI in D7

Wed Jan 4 05:12:28 AKST 2012

Well said Tony! I was going to do a breakdown. Glad you did it first. lol..
Frank and Bob took a year off (sorta).. They moved down to masters because
of this I believe. Maybe Frank-e will chime in..

You can call this however you want. I looked and there was an average over
the year last year of 6.9 Masters pilots per contest. Sure that's a lot.
But I am one who was moving out of Masters this season. And if I here Tony
correctly, he may be flying FAI locally. I'm not sure if there are any
others. I do know a few moving up from Advanced will take our place. But
FAI isn't the issue. Masters is. It's a destination class so it may always
be a problem with sportsman-advanced not growing. This problem isn't going
to go away by taking a few out of masters and creating a new FAI thing. It
will creep back up in another year or two when other Intermediate-advanced
pilots move up to masters.

I think a way to do it could be to split Masters, but not just run 2 lines,
but to alternate the pilots in line a to line b, and b to a from one round
to the next.. That way you get to fly against all pilots, and get judged by
all pilots also. I dislike the nats for this. You have to fly against your
same group the whole time. I always thought you should fly in group a
today, and group b tomorrow, c the next there..

There will be several contests (like past years) (last year it was 6 of the
15 contests) where there are only 3-6 Masters pilots where there won't be
any issue at all.

Chris

On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 10:54 PM, Anthony Frackowiak <
frackowiak at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Hi Jon,
>
> What you are proposing with a "silver" F3A and a "gold" F3A is in fact
> creating a new class. You're going to be giving away awards for it. Call it
> whatever you want, class or event. It's the same thing.
>
> I have seen other districts split the Masters class in to two groups. The
> judges then have a break in between judging the two groups. You can check
> with the Illinois district for details because that is where I have seen
> reports in the K-Factor about it. Peter has been giving some other
> possibilities. Also, you have admitted that a lot of this is about what
> might happen, not what really has happened regularly yet.
>
> You brought up flying Unknowns at the Districts in your first email so I
> was just giving my opinion regarding that possibility. I guess I shouldn't
> have. Sorry.
>
> I've gone over the results of 2009 and compared them to 2011. Here are the
> pilots who flew in an F3A event in D7 this year under the situation of
> flying both P and F.
>
> Matt Kimbro
> Jim Kimbro
> Steve Hannah
> Don Atwood
> Bill Sheets
> Adrian Wong
> Andrew Jesky
>
> Matt Kimbro has stated what he would like to do. I can't speak for the
> rest but I would guess since they competed in the P and F format they would
> want to continue. But maybe they will chime in.
>
> Here are the pilots who flew in an F3A contest in D7 in 2009 but did not
> in 2011. I'm pretty sure Chip and Mark would want to fly F and the others
> have expressed the opinion that P and F should continue,
>
> Chip Hyde
> Mark Leseberg
> Derek Koopowitz
> Troy Newman
> Chris Fitzsimmons
>
> Bill Wallace has said he is going to fly F3A but only P and will only
> offer P at his two contests. That is certainly his right as a CD and I
> respect that.
>
> Here are the pilots who flew F3A in 2009 but did not enter either F3A or
> Masters in 2011.
>
> Tom Messer
> Dave Reaville
> Craig Blodgett
> Gary McClellan
>
> Again, I can't speak for them so I don't know the reasons why they have
> quit entering pattern events in D7. Tom seemed to be having a lot of fun
> with helicopters at Fresno but I do know when this subject was discussed a
> while back he was not for adding F.
>
> That leaves these four pilots who actually moved to Masters from F3A since
> 2009,
>
> Greg Frohreich
> Frank Capone
> Bob Obregon
> Jarvis Johnson
>
> I have not talked to these people about this subject. Jarvis flew both
> Advanced and Masters this year, so I don't think he would fly F3A P. So
> that leaves three who might fly F3A P only. Maybe we will hear from them. I
> hope so because they are what this whole thing is about.
>
> I brought up the problems I see Nationally with the Pattern event as
> others did in their emails. I see them as the real problem here, because if
> we had more entrants in every class rather then the top heavy situation we
> have now this problem would cease to exist. Again, I guess I shouldn't
> have. Sorry.
>
> I have CD'd a number of contests so I am completely aware of the problems
> with judging. I just don't think your proposal will solve them.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Tony Frackowiak
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 3, 2012, at 9:25 PM, Jon Carter wrote:
>
>  Comments in line
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.**nsrca.org<nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>> [mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces@**lists.nsrca.org<nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>]
>> On Behalf Of Anthony Frackowiak
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 5:49 PM
>> To: CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] FAI in D7
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have felt before and I still feel that F3A Pilots should be prepared
>> to fly both. If not, fly Masters. As a CD I am totally against
>> creating classes in this District that are not also National. So I am
>> completely against this idea of a "silver" and "gold' F3A classes.
>>
>> [I don't see this as "creating" a class that is not National. That is what
>> the proposed Expert class was. This is flying P as an event and flying P
>> and
>> F as an event.]
>>
>>
>> There are other ways to handle the overload of Masters if that is
>> indeed what happens.
>>
>> [I would love to hear your ideas]
>>
>> I also feel that our District Championships in
>> F3A should include Unknown rounds. How in the world does an F3A pilot
>> prepare to fly Unknowns with no competitions including them?
>>
>> [That is something that we have considered for the districts and maybe we
>> could get some feedback from our FAI pilots. It's not really relevant to
>> this discussion.]
>>
>>
>> As to the drop off in F3A pilots, I went back and looked at who was
>> flying in 2009, 2010 and 2011. I think that the drop in F3A
>> competitors are for a lot of other reasons then just having to fly
>> both patterns.
>>
>> [Well, it's not exhaustive but I know that 4 pilots went to Masters from
>> FAI
>> when we added F. You might say that 4 is not that big a number but when we
>> have FAI classes in 2011 with from 0 to 2 pilots I think 4 is significant]
>>
>> I agree with much of what Chris said. The real problem is not F3A or
>> Masters. It's Sportsman and Intermediate. If pattern and hence the
>> NSRCA does not start to try to do something to increase the interest
>> in flying pattern, it really doesn't matter. We are a dying event.
>> Making Advanced and Masters more difficult is also not a solution. I'm
>> starting to help Jean Greear work on Intermediate. That in itself is a
>> huge jump from Sportsman. What will making Advanced more difficult do
>> to someone in Intermediate?
>>
>> The problem that I see in a very big way lately is that the powers to
>> be who are controlling the event, and by that I mean the NSRCA and the
>> Contest Board, are set in their ways and are apparently happy with the
>> status quo. Any significant change that could really help
>> participation in pattern gets shot down very quickly. Until this
>> changes we need to just be ready for more of the same.
>>
>> [My raising this point is not to discuss at a National level the problems
>> of
>> pattern but to possibly try out some creative solutions in our local
>> district to make our contests more fun and more competitive]
>>
>> BTW, I have been flying P-13 and starting to work on F-13. P-13 is  a
>> much better pattern then P-11 but it is definitely more difficult then
>> the current Masters pattern. F-13 is crazy hard. It will take a big
>> commitment to fly F-13 well. But if a current F3A pilot or someone
>> thinking of flying F3A can't handle it, then work to get that event
>> changed or fly an AMA class.
>>
>> Tony Frackowiak
>>
>>
>> [Jon Carter]
>>
>>
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-- 
Chris Fitzsimmons
Team F3A Unlimited
Team Airtronics
Team Thunder Power
08 D7 Masters Champion
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