[NSRCA-dist7] FAI in D7

Tue Jan 3 23:12:32 AKST 2012

I, too, am not in favor of adding another class at the top.  I also
believe the problem is in attracting new blood for the lower classes.
Here are the number of competitors that competed enough to be eligible
for D7 championship if they decided to compete in that contest (3
contests):

2008
Sportsman:  8 - Contest Avg: 3.58
Intermediate:  5 - Contest Avg: 3.00

2009 - 
Sportsman:  5 - Contest Avg: 2.46
Intermediate:  11 - Contest Avg:  4.23

2010
Sportsman:  3 - Contest Avg: 1.83
Intermediate:  8 - Contest Avg: 2.72

2011
Sportsman:  8 - Contest Avg:  3.26
Intermediate:  3 - Contest Avg:  1.20

The past couple of years we have had contest averages of less than 2
pilots in each of these classes.  We did a decent job with new sportsmen
this year and hopefully we can retain them and add at least as many new
sportsmen this year.   Interestingly, we have added contests since the
2009 season and average attendance at contests has dropped accordingly
(12  in 2008, 13 in 2009, 18 in 2010, and 15 in 2011) 

Advanced and masters have much higher attendance rates across all 4
years.

A few changes I can recommend that may improve attendance and interest
in general:
1.  Stop judging takeoffs/landing for Advanced and higher.  If you can't
land by that time....  Mebby even for all classes, but I can say that
judged landings in Sportsman definitely helped me that year.  This will
allow for a more efficient setup for flying like they do at the IMAC
contests.
2.  Open up the airframe rules for the lower classes.   Basically
anything you want to fly for Sportsman - Advanced.  Get the IMAC guys
interested and let them compete with the equipment they already have.
3.  Sportsman routine can be made more difficult.  The jump from
Sportsman to Intermediate is huge. 

Just some of my thoughts....

- Robert Beaubien
- D7 Webmaster
-
"No trees were harmed in the sending of this message, however a large
number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced."
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony
Frackowiak
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 11:54 PM
To: CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] FAI in D7

Hi Jon,

What you are proposing with a "silver" F3A and a "gold" F3A is in fact
creating a new class. You're going to be giving away awards for it.  
Call it whatever you want, class or event. It's the same thing.

I have seen other districts split the Masters class in to two groups.  
The judges then have a break in between judging the two groups. You can
check with the Illinois district for details because that is where I
have seen reports in the K-Factor about it. Peter has been giving some
other possibilities. Also, you have admitted that a lot of this is about
what might happen, not what really has happened regularly yet.

You brought up flying Unknowns at the Districts in your first email so I
was just giving my opinion regarding that possibility. I guess I
shouldn't have. Sorry.

I've gone over the results of 2009 and compared them to 2011. Here are
the pilots who flew in an F3A event in D7 this year under the situation
of flying both P and F.

Matt Kimbro
Jim Kimbro
Steve Hannah
Don Atwood
Bill Sheets
Adrian Wong
Andrew Jesky

Matt Kimbro has stated what he would like to do. I can't speak for the
rest but I would guess since they competed in the P and F format they
would want to continue. But maybe they will chime in.

Here are the pilots who flew in an F3A contest in D7 in 2009 but did not
in 2011. I'm pretty sure Chip and Mark would want to fly F and the
others have expressed the opinion that P and F should continue,

Chip Hyde
Mark Leseberg
Derek Koopowitz
Troy Newman
Chris Fitzsimmons

Bill Wallace has said he is going to fly F3A but only P and will only
offer P at his two contests. That is certainly his right as a CD and I
respect that.

Here are the pilots who flew F3A in 2009 but did not enter either F3A or
Masters in 2011.

Tom Messer
Dave Reaville
Craig Blodgett
Gary McClellan

Again, I can't speak for them so I don't know the reasons why they have
quit entering pattern events in D7. Tom seemed to be having a lot of fun
with helicopters at Fresno but I do know when this subject was discussed
a while back he was not for adding F.

That leaves these four pilots who actually moved to Masters from F3A
since 2009,

Greg Frohreich
Frank Capone
Bob Obregon
Jarvis Johnson

I have not talked to these people about this subject. Jarvis flew both
Advanced and Masters this year, so I don't think he would fly F3A P.  
So that leaves three who might fly F3A P only. Maybe we will hear from
them. I hope so because they are what this whole thing is about.

I brought up the problems I see Nationally with the Pattern event as
others did in their emails. I see them as the real problem here, because
if we had more entrants in every class rather then the top heavy
situation we have now this problem would cease to exist. Again, I guess
I shouldn't have. Sorry.

I have CD'd a number of contests so I am completely aware of the
problems with judging. I just don't think your proposal will solve them.

Respectfully,

Tony Frackowiak

On Jan 3, 2012, at 9:25 PM, Jon Carter wrote:

> Comments in line
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony 
> Frackowiak
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 5:49 PM
> To: CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] FAI in D7
>
> Hi,
>
> I have felt before and I still feel that F3A Pilots should be prepared

> to fly both. If not, fly Masters. As a CD I am totally against 
> creating classes in this District that are not also National. So I am 
> completely against this idea of a "silver" and "gold' F3A classes.
>
> [I don't see this as "creating" a class that is not National. That is 
> what the proposed Expert class was. This is flying P as an event and 
> flying P and F as an event.]
>
>
> There are other ways to handle the overload of Masters if that is 
> indeed what happens.
>
> [I would love to hear your ideas]
>
> I also feel that our District Championships in F3A should include 
> Unknown rounds. How in the world does an F3A pilot prepare to fly 
> Unknowns with no competitions including them?
>
> [That is something that we have considered for the districts and maybe

> we could get some feedback from our FAI pilots. It's not really 
> relevant to this discussion.]
>
>
> As to the drop off in F3A pilots, I went back and looked at who was 
> flying in 2009, 2010 and 2011. I think that the drop in F3A 
> competitors are for a lot of other reasons then just having to fly 
> both patterns.
>
> [Well, it's not exhaustive but I know that 4 pilots went to Masters 
> from FAI when we added F. You might say that 4 is not that big a 
> number but when we have FAI classes in 2011 with from 0 to 2 pilots I 
> think 4 is significant]
>
> I agree with much of what Chris said. The real problem is not F3A or 
> Masters. It's Sportsman and Intermediate. If pattern and hence the 
> NSRCA does not start to try to do something to increase the interest 
> in flying pattern, it really doesn't matter. We are a dying event.
> Making Advanced and Masters more difficult is also not a solution. I'm

> starting to help Jean Greear work on Intermediate. That in itself is a

> huge jump from Sportsman. What will making Advanced more difficult do 
> to someone in Intermediate?
>
> The problem that I see in a very big way lately is that the powers to 
> be who are controlling the event, and by that I mean the NSRCA and the

> Contest Board, are set in their ways and are apparently happy with the

> status quo. Any significant change that could really help 
> participation in pattern gets shot down very quickly. Until this 
> changes we need to just be ready for more of the same.
>
> [My raising this point is not to discuss at a National level the 
> problems of pattern but to possibly try out some creative solutions in

> our local district to make our contests more fun and more competitive]
>
> BTW, I have been flying P-13 and starting to work on F-13. P-13 is  a 
> much better pattern then P-11 but it is definitely more difficult then

> the current Masters pattern. F-13 is crazy hard. It will take a big 
> commitment to fly F-13 well. But if a current F3A pilot or someone 
> thinking of flying F3A can't handle it, then work to get that event 
> changed or fly an AMA class.
>
> Tony Frackowiak
>
>
> [Jon Carter]
>
>
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