[NSRCA-dist7] FAI in D7

Wed Jan 4 13:30:56 AKST 2012

I want to fly P and F, 3of 4 P scored and 1 of 2 F scored. I'd love to fly unknowns when practical. 

I initially liked the idea of split FAI classes but that's just because I'd like to see FAI grow. That's a discussion for a different time and will only get me in trouble. 

F shouldn't scare guys away. Heck, if there's something you don't like then just fly a straight line and take a zero. By definition that will achieve a two tiered class. I have only flown F a couple times and it's tough but I think most guys could muddle through it.  

Steve

On Jan 4, 2012, at 22:12, Chris Fitzsimmons <kfactoreditor at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well said Tony! I was going to do a breakdown. Glad you did it first. lol.. Frank and Bob took a year off (sorta).. They moved down to masters because of this I believe. Maybe Frank-e will chime in.. 
> 
> You can call this however you want. I looked and there was an average over the year last year of 6.9 Masters pilots per contest. Sure that's a lot. But I am one who was moving out of Masters this season. And if I here Tony correctly, he may be flying FAI locally. I'm not sure if there are any others. I do know a few moving up from Advanced will take our place. But FAI isn't the issue. Masters is. It's a destination class so it may always be a problem with sportsman-advanced not growing. This problem isn't going to go away by taking a few out of masters and creating a new FAI thing. It will creep back up in another year or two when other Intermediate-advanced pilots move up to masters. 
> 
> I think a way to do it could be to split Masters, but not just run 2 lines, but to alternate the pilots in line a to line b, and b to a from one round to the next.. That way you get to fly against all pilots, and get judged by all pilots also. I dislike the nats for this. You have to fly against your same group the whole time. I always thought you should fly in group a today, and group b tomorrow, c the next there.. 
> 
> There will be several contests (like past years) (last year it was 6 of the 15 contests) where there are only 3-6 Masters pilots where there won't be any issue at all. 
> 
> Chris
> 
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 10:54 PM, Anthony Frackowiak <frackowiak at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hi Jon,
> 
> What you are proposing with a "silver" F3A and a "gold" F3A is in fact creating a new class. You're going to be giving away awards for it. Call it whatever you want, class or event. It's the same thing.
> 
> I have seen other districts split the Masters class in to two groups. The judges then have a break in between judging the two groups. You can check with the Illinois district for details because that is where I have seen reports in the K-Factor about it. Peter has been giving some other possibilities. Also, you have admitted that a lot of this is about what might happen, not what really has happened regularly yet.
> 
> You brought up flying Unknowns at the Districts in your first email so I was just giving my opinion regarding that possibility. I guess I shouldn't have. Sorry.
> 
> I've gone over the results of 2009 and compared them to 2011. Here are the pilots who flew in an F3A event in D7 this year under the situation of flying both P and F.
> 
> Matt Kimbro
> Jim Kimbro
> Steve Hannah
> Don Atwood
> Bill Sheets
> Adrian Wong
> Andrew Jesky
> 
> Matt Kimbro has stated what he would like to do. I can't speak for the rest but I would guess since they competed in the P and F format they would want to continue. But maybe they will chime in.
> 
> Here are the pilots who flew in an F3A contest in D7 in 2009 but did not in 2011. I'm pretty sure Chip and Mark would want to fly F and the others have expressed the opinion that P and F should continue,
> 
> Chip Hyde
> Mark Leseberg
> Derek Koopowitz
> Troy Newman
> Chris Fitzsimmons
> 
> Bill Wallace has said he is going to fly F3A but only P and will only offer P at his two contests. That is certainly his right as a CD and I respect that.
> 
> Here are the pilots who flew F3A in 2009 but did not enter either F3A or Masters in 2011.
> 
> Tom Messer
> Dave Reaville
> Craig Blodgett
> Gary McClellan
> 
> Again, I can't speak for them so I don't know the reasons why they have quit entering pattern events in D7. Tom seemed to be having a lot of fun with helicopters at Fresno but I do know when this subject was discussed a while back he was not for adding F.
> 
> That leaves these four pilots who actually moved to Masters from F3A since 2009,
> 
> Greg Frohreich
> Frank Capone
> Bob Obregon
> Jarvis Johnson
> 
> I have not talked to these people about this subject. Jarvis flew both Advanced and Masters this year, so I don't think he would fly F3A P. So that leaves three who might fly F3A P only. Maybe we will hear from them. I hope so because they are what this whole thing is about.
> 
> I brought up the problems I see Nationally with the Pattern event as others did in their emails. I see them as the real problem here, because if we had more entrants in every class rather then the top heavy situation we have now this problem would cease to exist. Again, I guess I shouldn't have. Sorry.
> 
> I have CD'd a number of contests so I am completely aware of the problems with judging. I just don't think your proposal will solve them.
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Tony Frackowiak
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 3, 2012, at 9:25 PM, Jon Carter wrote:
> 
> Comments in line
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Frackowiak
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 5:49 PM
> To: CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] FAI in D7
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have felt before and I still feel that F3A Pilots should be prepared
> to fly both. If not, fly Masters. As a CD I am totally against
> creating classes in this District that are not also National. So I am
> completely against this idea of a "silver" and "gold' F3A classes.
> 
> [I don't see this as "creating" a class that is not National. That is what
> the proposed Expert class was. This is flying P as an event and flying P and
> F as an event.]
> 
> 
> There are other ways to handle the overload of Masters if that is
> indeed what happens.
> 
> [I would love to hear your ideas]
> 
> I also feel that our District Championships in
> F3A should include Unknown rounds. How in the world does an F3A pilot
> prepare to fly Unknowns with no competitions including them?
> 
> [That is something that we have considered for the districts and maybe we
> could get some feedback from our FAI pilots. It's not really relevant to
> this discussion.]
> 
> 
> As to the drop off in F3A pilots, I went back and looked at who was
> flying in 2009, 2010 and 2011. I think that the drop in F3A
> competitors are for a lot of other reasons then just having to fly
> both patterns.
> 
> [Well, it's not exhaustive but I know that 4 pilots went to Masters from FAI
> when we added F. You might say that 4 is not that big a number but when we
> have FAI classes in 2011 with from 0 to 2 pilots I think 4 is significant]
> 
> I agree with much of what Chris said. The real problem is not F3A or
> Masters. It's Sportsman and Intermediate. If pattern and hence the
> NSRCA does not start to try to do something to increase the interest
> in flying pattern, it really doesn't matter. We are a dying event.
> Making Advanced and Masters more difficult is also not a solution. I'm
> starting to help Jean Greear work on Intermediate. That in itself is a
> huge jump from Sportsman. What will making Advanced more difficult do
> to someone in Intermediate?
> 
> The problem that I see in a very big way lately is that the powers to
> be who are controlling the event, and by that I mean the NSRCA and the
> Contest Board, are set in their ways and are apparently happy with the
> status quo. Any significant change that could really help
> participation in pattern gets shot down very quickly. Until this
> changes we need to just be ready for more of the same.
> 
> [My raising this point is not to discuss at a National level the problems of
> pattern but to possibly try out some creative solutions in our local
> district to make our contests more fun and more competitive]
> 
> BTW, I have been flying P-13 and starting to work on F-13. P-13 is  a
> much better pattern then P-11 but it is definitely more difficult then
> the current Masters pattern. F-13 is crazy hard. It will take a big
> commitment to fly F-13 well. But if a current F3A pilot or someone
> thinking of flying F3A can't handle it, then work to get that event
> changed or fly an AMA class.
> 
> Tony Frackowiak
> 
> 
> [Jon Carter]
> 
> 
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> 
> -- 
> Chris Fitzsimmons
> Team F3A Unlimited
> Team Airtronics
> Team Thunder Power
> 08 D7 Masters Champion
> 
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