[NSRCA-dist7] Clarification on FAI maneuver 1

[James Oddino]

Are you saying the knife edge is point 2 and must be the same length  
as point 1, that is, the level upright line that precedes knife edge?   
Doesn't sound right to me.

Jim O


On May 1, 2008, at 4:49 PM, Robert Gillespie wrote:

> Scott,
> the FAI rule book is very clear on how the maneuver is to be done.
> "From upright, perorm 2 points of a 4-pt roll, and push immediately  
> to a half outside loop. Perform a full roll, followed immediately by  
> a half outside loop, to exit inverted."
>
> The outside loops must follow immediately after the 2/4 pt roll and  
> roll.
> the lenght of the upper horizontal line (including roll) is equal  
> tothe diameter of the half loops.
> The geometric shape is that of of a Double Immelmann.
>
> As a judge I will downgrade if the is any noticable level  flight  
> after after the 2nd point of the 2/4 and after the full roll on top.  
> In other words when the plane stops rotating push.
>
> Bob G.
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> Scott <scottcov at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Don: I agree with your approach with the inverted portion of the 2  
> of 4 being equal to the knife edge.  If the inverted section was not  
> equal, then it is not really a 2 of 4.
>
>
>  sc - Several I have spoken with think there is NO inverted flight,  
> you do the KE then push immediately. It's kind of like where the  
> center of a 4 point is, by definition, it's the inverted portion of  
> the maneuver, but in reality, it's not, it's at the transition of  
> inverted to KE - When I spoke to the judging committee, they told me  
> it's N-1 for the center - so a 4 point is defined as 4-1=3 and the  
> 3rd point is the end of KE, so the center is at inverted flight if  
> you define it this way. This is also defined by a 'roll' - we all  
> agree the center of a roll is inverted flight, and per the judging  
> committee, a 4-point ROLL is a roll, and the center can't be  
> different because it's a roll. If we use this as the criteria, 2 of  
> 4, is a 2 point roll, 2-1 = 1 so the center is the middle of point  
> 1, which is KE, so there is no inverted flight after the KE, it's KE  
> then push. I just want to know what others think. It's silly to lose  
> points if we don't all agree on how it should be done.
>
> My understanding is that the geometrically, the maneuver is a square  
> with half loops on either end.
>
> Since I don't judge FAI, let's hear from those that do.  What are  
> you looking for and why?
>
> sc- I just want to know how to fly this per those the Judge this. I  
> don't care which way we define it, but I do not want to have points  
> deducted because the Judge wants to see and equal line segment when  
> inverted, and another judge does  not want to see any inverted flight.
>
> sc
>
> Don
>
> In a message dated 5/1/2008 9:55:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, scottcov at comcast.net 
>  writes:
> Hey all you judges out there - and those that know.
>
> I just want to verify that on the double M, the first FAI maneuver,  
> after the 2 of 4, there is NO LINE PRESENT when inverted (this is  
> the 2nd point of the 2 of 4) - so basically you fly knife edge, roll  
> to inverted and push immediately. Is this correct? Is this how it  
> will be judged? Also, it's to be presented as a square with rounded  
> ends - correct?
>
> Personally, I like to fly it with the same length knife edge and the  
> same length inverted, basically showing the 2 of 4, then push to the  
> 1/2 outside loop - but I do not think this is how it's described or  
> being judged - so I'd just like to know what the judges are looking  
> for.
>
> Thanks
>
> Scott
>
>
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