<html><head><meta content="MSHTML 6.00.6001.18023" name="GENERATOR"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Are you saying the knife edge is point 2 and must be the same length as point 1, that is, the level upright line that precedes knife edge? Doesn't sound right to me.<div><br></div><div>Jim O</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><html>On May 1, 2008, at 4:49 PM, Robert Gillespie wrote:</html><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Scott,</div> <div>the FAI rule book is very clear on how the maneuver is to be done. </div> <div>"From upright, perorm 2 points of a 4-pt roll, and push immediately to a half outside loop. Perform a full roll, followed immediately by a half outside loop, to exit inverted."</div> <div> </div> <div>The outside loops must follow immediately after the 2/4 pt roll and roll.</div> <div>the lenght of the upper horizontal line (including roll) is equal tothe diameter of the half loops. </div> <div>The geometric shape is that of of a Double Immelmann.</div> <div> </div> <div>As a judge I will downgrade if the is any noticable level flight after after the 2nd point of the 2/4 and after the full roll on top. In other words when the plane stops rotating push.</div> <div> </div> <div>Bob G.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div><br><br><b><i>Scott <<a href="mailto:scottcov@comcast.net">scottcov@comcast.net</a>></i></b> wrote:</div> <blockquote class="replbq" style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <div dir="ltr" align="left"> </div> <div class="OutlookMessageHeader" lang="en-us" dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="751352819-01052008">Don: </span><font id="role_document" face="Arial">I agree with your approach with the inverted portion of the 2 of 4 being equal to the knife edge. If the inverted section was not equal, then it is not really a 2 of 4. </font></div><font id="role_document" face="Arial"> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div><span class="751352819-01052008"> sc - Several I have spoken with think there is NO inverted flight, you do the KE then push immediately. It's kind of like where the center of a 4 point is, by definition, it's the inverted portion of the maneuver, but in reality, it's not, it's at the transition of inverted to KE - When I spoke to the judging committee, they told me it's N-1 for the center - so a 4 point is defined as 4-1=3 and the 3rd point is the end of KE, so the center is at inverted flight if you define it this way. This is also defined by a 'roll' - we all agree the center of a roll is inverted flight, and per the judging committee, a 4-point ROLL is a roll, and the center can't be different because it's a roll. If we use this as the criteria, 2 of 4, is a 2 point roll, 2-1 = 1 so the center is the middle of point 1, which is KE, so there is no inverted flight after the KE, it's KE then push. I just want to know what others think. It's silly to lose points if we don't all agree on how it should be done.</span></div> <div> </div> <div>My understanding is that the geometrically, the maneuver is a square with half loops on either end.</div> <div> </div> <div>Since I don't judge FAI, let's hear from those that do. What are you looking for and why?<span class="751352819-01052008"> </span></div> <div><span class="751352819-01052008"></span> </div> <div><span class="751352819-01052008">sc- I just want to know how to fly this per those the Judge this. I don't care which way we define it, but I do not want to have points deducted because the Judge wants to see and equal line segment when inverted, and another judge does not want to see any inverted flight.</span></div> <div><span class="751352819-01052008"></span> </div> <div><span class="751352819-01052008">sc </span></div> <div> </div> <div>Don</div> <div> </div> <div> <div>In a message dated 5/1/2008 9:55:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, <a href="mailto:scottcov@comcast.net">scottcov@comcast.net</a> writes:</div> <blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face="Arial"> <div><font face="Tahoma">Hey all you judges out there - and those that know.</font></div> <div><font face="Tahoma"></font> </div> <div><font face="Tahoma">I just want to verify that on the double M, the first FAI maneuver, after the 2 of 4, there is NO LINE PRESENT when inverted (this is the 2nd point of the 2 of 4) - so basically you fly knife edge, roll to inverted and push immediately. Is this correct? Is this how it will be judged? Also, it's to be presented as a square with rounded ends - correct?</font></div> <div><font face="Tahoma"></font> </div> <div><font face="Tahoma">Personally, I like to fly it with the same length knife edge and the same length inverted, basically showing the 2 of 4, then push to the 1/2 outside loop - but I do not think this is how it's described or being judged - so I'd just like to know what the judges are looking for.</font></div> <div><font face="Tahoma"></font> </div> <div><font face="Tahoma">Thanks</font></div> <div><font face="Tahoma"></font> </div> <div><font face="Tahoma">Scott</font></div><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-dist7 mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-dist7@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-dist7@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7<br></font></blockquote></div></font><br><br><br> <div><font style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black"> <hr style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Need a new ride? 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