[NSRCA-dist7] Clarification on FAI maneuver 1

[Scott]

Hey Bob. I believe you are correct, there is NO inverted level flight after
the knife edge - but let's say when the plane is wings level inverted, you
push. This may appear to be a very small inverted segment depending on what
you call 'wings level'.  I hope all the judges use this criteria.
 
See you at Hemet.
 
Scott

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From: nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Robert Gillespie
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 4:50 PM
To: CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] Clarification on FAI maneuver 1


Scott,
the FAI rule book is very clear on how the maneuver is to be done. 
"From upright, perorm 2 points of a 4-pt roll, and push immediately to a
half outside loop. Perform a full roll, followed immediately by a half
outside loop, to exit inverted."
 
The outside loops must follow immediately after the 2/4 pt roll and roll.
the lenght of the upper horizontal line (including roll) is equal tothe
diameter of the half loops. 
The geometric shape is that of of a Double Immelmann.
 
As a judge I will downgrade if the is any noticable level  flight after
after the 2nd point of the 2/4 and after the full roll on top. In other
words when the plane stops rotating push.
 
Bob G.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Scott <scottcov at comcast.net> wrote:

 
Don: I agree with your approach with the inverted portion of the 2 of 4
being equal to the knife edge.  If the inverted section was not equal, then
it is not really a 2 of 4.  
 
 
 sc - Several I have spoken with think there is NO inverted flight, you do
the KE then push immediately. It's kind of like where the center of a 4
point is, by definition, it's the inverted portion of the maneuver, but in
reality, it's not, it's at the transition of inverted to KE - When I spoke
to the judging committee, they told me it's N-1 for the center - so a 4
point is defined as 4-1=3 and the 3rd point is the end of KE, so the center
is at inverted flight if you define it this way. This is also defined by a
'roll' - we all agree the center of a roll is inverted flight, and per the
judging committee, a 4-point ROLL is a roll, and the center can't be
different because it's a roll. If we use this as the criteria, 2 of 4, is a
2 point roll, 2-1 = 1 so the center is the middle of point 1, which is KE,
so there is no inverted flight after the KE, it's KE then push. I just want
to know what others think. It's silly to lose points if we don't all agree
on how it should be done.
 
My understanding is that the geometrically, the maneuver is a square with
half loops on either end.
 
Since I don't judge FAI, let's hear from those that do.  What are you
looking for and why? 
 
sc- I just want to know how to fly this per those the Judge this. I don't
care which way we define it, but I do not want to have points deducted
because the Judge wants to see and equal line segment when inverted, and
another judge does  not want to see any inverted flight.
 
sc 
 
Don
 
In a message dated 5/1/2008 9:55:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
scottcov at comcast.net writes:


Hey all you judges out there - and those that know.
 
I just want to verify that on the double M, the first FAI maneuver, after
the 2 of 4, there is NO LINE PRESENT when inverted (this is the 2nd point of
the 2 of 4) - so basically you fly knife edge, roll to inverted and push
immediately. Is this correct? Is this how it will be judged? Also, it's to
be presented as a square with rounded ends - correct?
 
Personally, I like to fly it with the same length knife edge and the same
length inverted, basically showing the 2 of 4, then push to the 1/2 outside
loop - but I do not think this is how it's described or being judged - so
I'd just like to know what the judges are looking for.
 
Thanks
 
Scott


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