[NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question, plus one of mine

[Vicente Bortone]

Opps.   Out.

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 11:09 AM Vicente Bortone <vincebrc at gmail.com> wrote:

> I like Time Our.  I agree 100% with Mark.
>
> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 10:50 AM Anthony Romano via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Galaxy Tab® S2
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Anthony Frackowiak via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Date: 8/16/19 11:14 AM (GMT-05:00)
>> To: Atwood Mark <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>, General pattern discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question, plus one of mine
>>
>> This whole email chain is an example of why the event is dying. It’s just
>> about proof that it is impossible to judge the flying as it has evolved. We
>> keep making the maneuvers more complex, imbalanced and with more elements
>> yet there has not been any significant improvement in a humans ability to
>> absorb all of it and assign a score.
>>
>> Tony Frackowiak
>>
>>
>> On Aug 16, 2019, at 7:35 AM, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> Time out…
>>
>> *The maneuver is centered based on where it starts, and where it ends*.
>>   When done properly, the center of a *symmetrical* maneuver is fairly
>> obvious and in the case of the two rolls mentioned, the center of the pause
>> between the two rolls, or in the case of no pause, the transition point.
>>  BUT… if one roll is performed more slowly, that does not mean the maneuver
>> is automatically not centered.   They can still center the maneuver, it’s
>> just no longer at the center of the pause between rolls.    So yes, you can
>> have a maneuver that is downgraded for JUST the roll rate change because
>> it’s still centered.  And another where you need to downgrade for both.
>>
>> Admittedly, that’s tough to watch for as a judge, but there’s no double
>> jeopardy here.
>>
>> -M
>>
>> On Aug 16, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Phil Spelt via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> CAUTION: Message originated from outside of Paragon. Use caution
>> regarding any links, attachments, credential and financial requests.
>>
>> If I understand Anthony's post, I have to agree with him on the double
>> jeopardy point.  If the pilot changes roll rate, then, *ipso facto*, the
>> second roll will be longer (or shorter) than the first roll.  Since that is
>> the case, downgrading for the delta  roll rate *and* the change in
>> length of roll would be punishing the same error twice.
>>
>> I have a question of my own: is the "center" of such a maneuver judged as
>> being on the center of the box, or is it judged as a center point of the
>> maneuver, independent of where the center of the box is?  It seems to me
>> that the center of the maneuver and the center of the box should coincide.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Phil Spelt, AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member SPA L-18, Board Member,
>> NSRCA 2032, KCRC Emeritus Knoxville, TN  37931   (865) 604-0541c*
>>
>> On August 15, 2019 at 10:46 AM Anthony Romano via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> The distance from the end of the first roll should be an equal distance
>> from center as the beginning of the second roll, when a pause is present.
>> Variances in roll rate would be a separate downgrade. Changes in roll rate
>> would affect the overall length but would seem to be double jeopardy to
>> downgrade for centering and if the rolls are true slow rolls, approx 3
>> seconds, very hard to judge.
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
>> behalf of Don Ramsey via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 9:15 AM
>> *To:* 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question
>>
>> I finally have the World Championships posted on my site in an easy to
>> read pdf format.
>> http://pages.suddenlink.net/donramsey
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> An interesting judging question came up the other day and I would like to
>> get some feedback from the group.
>>
>>
>> Are rolling maneuvers, like the current Masters 2 slow rolls reversed, an
>> asymmetrical maneuver?  If the maneuver finishes the first roll just before
>> center (as it should) then changes the roll rate causing the line length of
>> the second roll to be different from the first, should this be considered a
>> centering error in addition to the change in roll rate.
>>
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
> --
Vicente "Vince" Bortone
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