[NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question, plus one of mine

[Vicente Bortone]

I like Time Our.  I agree 100% with Mark.

Vicente "Vince" Bortone


On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 10:50 AM Anthony Romano via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

> +1
>
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy Tab® S2
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Anthony Frackowiak via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Date: 8/16/19 11:14 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: Atwood Mark <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>, General pattern discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question, plus one of mine
>
> This whole email chain is an example of why the event is dying. It’s just
> about proof that it is impossible to judge the flying as it has evolved. We
> keep making the maneuvers more complex, imbalanced and with more elements
> yet there has not been any significant improvement in a humans ability to
> absorb all of it and assign a score.
>
> Tony Frackowiak
>
>
> On Aug 16, 2019, at 7:35 AM, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Time out…
>
> *The maneuver is centered based on where it starts, and where it ends*.
> When done properly, the center of a *symmetrical* maneuver is fairly
> obvious and in the case of the two rolls mentioned, the center of the pause
> between the two rolls, or in the case of no pause, the transition point.
>  BUT… if one roll is performed more slowly, that does not mean the maneuver
> is automatically not centered.   They can still center the maneuver, it’s
> just no longer at the center of the pause between rolls.    So yes, you can
> have a maneuver that is downgraded for JUST the roll rate change because
> it’s still centered.  And another where you need to downgrade for both.
>
> Admittedly, that’s tough to watch for as a judge, but there’s no double
> jeopardy here.
>
> -M
>
> On Aug 16, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Phil Spelt via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> CAUTION: Message originated from outside of Paragon. Use caution
> regarding any links, attachments, credential and financial requests.
>
> If I understand Anthony's post, I have to agree with him on the double
> jeopardy point.  If the pilot changes roll rate, then, *ipso facto*, the
> second roll will be longer (or shorter) than the first roll.  Since that is
> the case, downgrading for the delta  roll rate *and* the change in length
> of roll would be punishing the same error twice.
>
> I have a question of my own: is the "center" of such a maneuver judged as
> being on the center of the box, or is it judged as a center point of the
> maneuver, independent of where the center of the box is?  It seems to me
> that the center of the maneuver and the center of the box should coincide.
>
>
>
> *Phil Spelt, AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member SPA L-18, Board Member,
> NSRCA 2032, KCRC Emeritus Knoxville, TN  37931   (865) 604-0541c*
>
> On August 15, 2019 at 10:46 AM Anthony Romano via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> The distance from the end of the first roll should be an equal distance
> from center as the beginning of the second roll, when a pause is present.
> Variances in roll rate would be a separate downgrade. Changes in roll rate
> would affect the overall length but would seem to be double jeopardy to
> downgrade for centering and if the rolls are true slow rolls, approx 3
> seconds, very hard to judge.
>
> Anthony
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
> behalf of Don Ramsey via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 9:15 AM
> *To:* 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question
>
> I finally have the World Championships posted on my site in an easy to
> read pdf format.
> http://pages.suddenlink.net/donramsey
>
>
>
>
> An interesting judging question came up the other day and I would like to
> get some feedback from the group.
>
>
> Are rolling maneuvers, like the current Masters 2 slow rolls reversed, an
> asymmetrical maneuver?  If the maneuver finishes the first roll just before
> center (as it should) then changes the roll rate causing the line length of
> the second roll to be different from the first, should this be considered a
> centering error in addition to the change in roll rate.
>
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
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