[NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes

Wed Sep 26 12:18:20 AKDT 2018

Glow model at full throttle -- sure, can happen, has happened -- but when
you are starting a glow motor:
1.  You have someone holding the plane (usually)
2.  YOU are, or whoever is running the starter is, in FRONT of the plane,
natural self-preservation kicks in and causes all kinds of double + triple
checking to avoid self-injury.

With electric, it is *rarely* the pilot who is at risk or harmed if an
armed airplane pops to full throttle. Hence the "risk" of a glow issue is
significantly reduced.  You can also tell when a glow motor is "armed"
because it's idling.  None of that exists with electric.

I totally agree that rules, systems like arming plugs, etc. don't prevent
every accident.  But, every gun has a safety switch for a reason, and the
supervisors at a firing range have a sharp eye out for people not flipping
the safety switch when they step back -- shouldn't the same be true for our
aircraft?

Peter+

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 12:43 PM Andrew Jesky <andrewjesky at gmail.com> wrote:

> So I work in a field that is heavily involved with folks who try and take
> human factors out of it, even when a soldier is completely in the wrong
> they try and put a process in place to fix this. What I’ve found is that
> you can try and limit as many factors as possible but it still comes down
> to knowing the equipment and how it works. Plain and simple, I have had
> numerous different folks grab my airplane and never once has it gone full
> throttle. It’s because I treat it like a loaded gun. It can and will bite
> if you allow it. So we add an arming plug to prevent this, what do you do
> to stop a glow model to start at full throttle? There isn’t anything they
> can do but know there equipment.
>
> Andrew
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 26, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> To me the big thing is the *convenience* and *expediency* of disarming via
> an external plug.  Many canopies can be fussy about how they go on and off
> and, at a contest where we try to keep things moving quickly, especially
> when one plane has just landed and another is on approach it’s quick and
> easy for the caller to disarm the plane and carry it into the pits if there
> is an external device.  Without that, and in the hurry-up scenarios it is
> real easy for an armed plane to get carried into the pits.
>
> Quite frankly though, it’s not going to happen until the top pilots start
> setting the example rather than being “part of the problem”.  They AREN’T a
> problem because they fly so much and have a regular caller who knows the
> routine and quickly disarms the plane, etc. but they need to set an example
> for the rest who DON’T have those advantages.  I get the “point of failure”
> concerns, and agree that things like the deans arming plug approach, etc.
> can introduce those. But an anti-spark external arming bullet, IMHO
> *reduces* points of failure by ensuring you get no carbon buildup on any
> battery/ESC connections.
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
> behalf of Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 12:12:07 PM
> *To:* derekemmett at yahoo.com; NSRCA NSRCA
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes
>
> Derek,
>
> The key is that you saw him doing that.  You could have told him.  If you
> didn't want to tell him you just could make aware of all around to watch
> out.   It is basic safety that has been proved in the industry.  Any power
> electric circuit has to have an external visible disconnect.  It is just
> the basic "Show me rule"   We just want to make sure that the gun cannot
> fire.  Of courser there are always exceptions and accidents happen.
> However, the external arming switch will reduce the chances of accidents
> for sure.
>
> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 1:06 PM Derek Emmett via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>> The method of disarming the plane is only as good as the pilot (external
>> or internal).  It is for the pilot to enforce the safety of his plane,
>> otherwise you need a watchdog at every flight line to really see the action
>> take place.  In the later many of us take for granted and expect the pilot
>> to do his job.  Sometimes we observe the disarming and sometimes we don't.
>> Perhaps this is where the biggest improvement in safety could take place.
>>
>>
>> This last weekend's pattern contest, I noticed a pilot take his plane out
>> of the car, put it all together, then start to put flight pack in, with the
>> arming plug still installed!?  Point is safety errors will happen
>> regardless.  We are the drivers of the planes, thus we need to be the 100%
>> responsible party of course.  I think the biggest improvement we can
>> immediately apply is to individually watch what our buddies are doing, and
>> just be the extra set of eyes and caution.  Lets help each other not make
>> these critical errors.
>>
>> Best
>> Derek...
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 26, 2018, 8:47:49 AM PDT, Anthony Romano via
>> NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Both of those incidents were due to pilots not following the statement
>> below. Having an arming plug would not have prevented either incident.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
>> behalf of Patternpilot One via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 11:29 AM
>> *To:* Jon Bruml; General pattern discussion
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes
>>
>> Right from the AMA competition guide.
>>
>> At no time will a model be left unrestrained or unattended while running
>> or with the electric motor power circuit(s) physically connected unless the
>> model is on the runway.
>>
>> All models that have the capability of Fail Safe in the radio shall have
>> the throttle set to Fail Safe in a way that the motor/engine comes to a
>> complete stop or a minimum idle if it were to lose signal from the
>> transmitter.
>>
>>
>> Scott A.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Jon Bruml via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Date: 9/26/18 11:10 AM (GMT-05:00)
>> To: Joe Lachowski <jlachow at hotmail.com>, Vicente Bortone <
>> vincebrc at gmail.com>, General pattern discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes
>>
>> Okay how about the FAi pilot who accidentally advanced his throttle in
>> the pits at a June contest and destroyed the entire back end of an Oxai ?
>> Only by grace was no one injured
>>
>> Jonathan Bruml
>> Techstyles
>> www.techstyles.com
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
>> behalf of Joe Lachowski via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:07:08 AM
>> *To:* Vicente Bortone; General pattern discussion
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes
>>
>>
>> So you want to require an arming device based on a sport flyers stupidity.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
>> behalf of Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 10:38:30 AM
>> *To:* Vogel, Peter; NSRCA NSRCA
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes
>>
>> This is real experience.  About 3-4 years ago I was getting ready to fly
>> with another friend.  Both of our planes were already in the pits and we
>> just were talking before starting the day.  A pilot came with an electric
>> plane and parked between us.  He left it there and decided that he needs to
>> go and get something.  About a minute later his plane came to live suddenly
>> and took us from the pits.  It starting to do an small loop and was coming
>> directly toward us.  It was so fast that my friend said "take cover". We
>> were lucky that the plane crashed in front of us and there were no more
>> pilots flying or around.  It was so fast that I didn't have time to move an
>> inch and could have hit us easily.  The plane didn't have an arming switch
>> outside so there was no way for us to know if was armed.  The owner came
>> and we never were able to figure out what really happened.
>>
>> I think makes sense to put together a formal request that will require
>> external disconnect outside the electric powered planes.  It is easy to
>> justify since is already a requirement of the National Electrical Code and
>> OSHA.  Anyone out there wants to put together a draft.  I will help to
>> signed since I am a CD.
>>
>> !Gone Flying!
>>
>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 7:41 PM Vogel, Peter via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> Rule says you must disarm the plane before bringing into the pits, does
>> not say how.  That can mean take off canopy and unplug.  I’ve moved to
>> using a Jeti anti-spark bullet in-line on the red side of the battery-esc
>> connection with the bullet routed to the outside of the plane.  Quick,
>> simple, foolproof.  Anti-spark prevents carbon buildup on the bullets.
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
>> behalf of Phil Spelt via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 25, 2018 5:34:02 PM
>> *To:* General pattern discussion
>> *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes
>>
>>
>> Guys, what is the current status of arming devices in NSRCA for you
>> electric airplanes?  Does anyone know what the AMA says about arming
>> devices -- I can't find my way around the new web site yet, and this is the
>> easy way out!  lol
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Phil Spelt, AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member SPA L-18, Board Member,
>> KCRC Emeritus Oliver Springs, TN (865) 435-1476v (865) 604-0541c*
>>
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-- 
Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
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