[NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes

Wed Sep 26 11:49:55 AKDT 2018

Andrew is 100% correct as are others.  The problem is, even when one knows
his/her system, if you forget and don't have a procedure in place that is
followed (aka a checklist mental or physical), things can and do go wrong.
A rule doesn't prevent accidents, merely guides individuals to develop a
procedure and gives a way to "punish" the offender.  In the end, it is
absolutely up to the pilot but also us as fellow pilots to remind or point
out when the procedure or obvious problem isn't dealt with.  Reviews and
recurrent training work IRL but that's not something required for modelers.

*Scott A. McHarg*

Takeoff is optional.  Landing is mandatory!

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 2:44 PM Andrew Jesky via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

> So I work in a field that is heavily involved with folks who try and take
> human factors out of it, even when a soldier is completely in the wrong
> they try and put a process in place to fix this. What I’ve found is that
> you can try and limit as many factors as possible but it still comes down
> to knowing the equipment and how it works. Plain and simple, I have had
> numerous different folks grab my airplane and never once has it gone full
> throttle. It’s because I treat it like a loaded gun. It can and will bite
> if you allow it. So we add an arming plug to prevent this, what do you do
> to stop a glow model to start at full throttle? There isn’t anything they
> can do but know there equipment.
>
> Andrew
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 26, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> To me the big thing is the *convenience* and *expediency* of disarming via
> an external plug.  Many canopies can be fussy about how they go on and off
> and, at a contest where we try to keep things moving quickly, especially
> when one plane has just landed and another is on approach it’s quick and
> easy for the caller to disarm the plane and carry it into the pits if there
> is an external device.  Without that, and in the hurry-up scenarios it is
> real easy for an armed plane to get carried into the pits.
>
> Quite frankly though, it’s not going to happen until the top pilots start
> setting the example rather than being “part of the problem”.  They AREN’T a
> problem because they fly so much and have a regular caller who knows the
> routine and quickly disarms the plane, etc. but they need to set an example
> for the rest who DON’T have those advantages.  I get the “point of failure”
> concerns, and agree that things like the deans arming plug approach, etc.
> can introduce those. But an anti-spark external arming bullet, IMHO
> *reduces* points of failure by ensuring you get no carbon buildup on any
> battery/ESC connections.
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
> behalf of Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 12:12:07 PM
> *To:* derekemmett at yahoo.com; NSRCA NSRCA
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes
>
> Derek,
>
> The key is that you saw him doing that.  You could have told him.  If you
> didn't want to tell him you just could make aware of all around to watch
> out.   It is basic safety that has been proved in the industry.  Any power
> electric circuit has to have an external visible disconnect.  It is just
> the basic "Show me rule"   We just want to make sure that the gun cannot
> fire.  Of courser there are always exceptions and accidents happen.
> However, the external arming switch will reduce the chances of accidents
> for sure.
>
> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 1:06 PM Derek Emmett via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>> The method of disarming the plane is only as good as the pilot (external
>> or internal).  It is for the pilot to enforce the safety of his plane,
>> otherwise you need a watchdog at every flight line to really see the action
>> take place.  In the later many of us take for granted and expect the pilot
>> to do his job.  Sometimes we observe the disarming and sometimes we don't.
>> Perhaps this is where the biggest improvement in safety could take place.
>>
>>
>> This last weekend's pattern contest, I noticed a pilot take his plane out
>> of the car, put it all together, then start to put flight pack in, with the
>> arming plug still installed!?  Point is safety errors will happen
>> regardless.  We are the drivers of the planes, thus we need to be the 100%
>> responsible party of course.  I think the biggest improvement we can
>> immediately apply is to individually watch what our buddies are doing, and
>> just be the extra set of eyes and caution.  Lets help each other not make
>> these critical errors.
>>
>> Best
>> Derek...
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 26, 2018, 8:47:49 AM PDT, Anthony Romano via
>> NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Both of those incidents were due to pilots not following the statement
>> below. Having an arming plug would not have prevented either incident.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
>> behalf of Patternpilot One via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 11:29 AM
>> *To:* Jon Bruml; General pattern discussion
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes
>>
>> Right from the AMA competition guide.
>>
>> At no time will a model be left unrestrained or unattended while running
>> or with the electric motor power circuit(s) physically connected unless the
>> model is on the runway.
>>
>> All models that have the capability of Fail Safe in the radio shall have
>> the throttle set to Fail Safe in a way that the motor/engine comes to a
>> complete stop or a minimum idle if it were to lose signal from the
>> transmitter.
>>
>>
>> Scott A.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Jon Bruml via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Date: 9/26/18 11:10 AM (GMT-05:00)
>> To: Joe Lachowski <jlachow at hotmail.com>, Vicente Bortone <
>> vincebrc at gmail.com>, General pattern discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes
>>
>> Okay how about the FAi pilot who accidentally advanced his throttle in
>> the pits at a June contest and destroyed the entire back end of an Oxai ?
>> Only by grace was no one injured
>>
>> Jonathan Bruml
>> Techstyles
>> www.techstyles.com
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
>> behalf of Joe Lachowski via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:07:08 AM
>> *To:* Vicente Bortone; General pattern discussion
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes
>>
>>
>> So you want to require an arming device based on a sport flyers stupidity.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
>> behalf of Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 10:38:30 AM
>> *To:* Vogel, Peter; NSRCA NSRCA
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes
>>
>> This is real experience.  About 3-4 years ago I was getting ready to fly
>> with another friend.  Both of our planes were already in the pits and we
>> just were talking before starting the day.  A pilot came with an electric
>> plane and parked between us.  He left it there and decided that he needs to
>> go and get something.  About a minute later his plane came to live suddenly
>> and took us from the pits.  It starting to do an small loop and was coming
>> directly toward us.  It was so fast that my friend said "take cover". We
>> were lucky that the plane crashed in front of us and there were no more
>> pilots flying or around.  It was so fast that I didn't have time to move an
>> inch and could have hit us easily.  The plane didn't have an arming switch
>> outside so there was no way for us to know if was armed.  The owner came
>> and we never were able to figure out what really happened.
>>
>> I think makes sense to put together a formal request that will require
>> external disconnect outside the electric powered planes.  It is easy to
>> justify since is already a requirement of the National Electrical Code and
>> OSHA.  Anyone out there wants to put together a draft.  I will help to
>> signed since I am a CD.
>>
>> !Gone Flying!
>>
>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 7:41 PM Vogel, Peter via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> Rule says you must disarm the plane before bringing into the pits, does
>> not say how.  That can mean take off canopy and unplug.  I’ve moved to
>> using a Jeti anti-spark bullet in-line on the red side of the battery-esc
>> connection with the bullet routed to the outside of the plane.  Quick,
>> simple, foolproof.  Anti-spark prevents carbon buildup on the bullets.
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
>> behalf of Phil Spelt via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 25, 2018 5:34:02 PM
>> *To:* General pattern discussion
>> *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes
>>
>>
>> Guys, what is the current status of arming devices in NSRCA for you
>> electric airplanes?  Does anyone know what the AMA says about arming
>> devices -- I can't find my way around the new web site yet, and this is the
>> easy way out!  lol
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Phil Spelt, AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member SPA L-18, Board Member,
>> KCRC Emeritus Oliver Springs, TN (865) 435-1476v (865) 604-0541c*
>>
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