[NSRCA-discussion] Election

Sun Dec 23 09:33:15 AKST 2018

As a member of the NSRCA, I would like to know and have it made public:

Who brought the “count being close concern” to the table for the BoD to discuss?

Two simple test question:

1)      There is only one contested office. Did both candidates have the same information that was discussed by the BoD?

a.       If yes, non-issue

b.      If not, this is an ethical issue that was not handled by the BoD properly.

2)      Did both candidates have say in the discussion of the BoD for this issue?

If the answer is no, then there is clearly an unfair advantage. The premise and conclusion can only be one party has the data and can influence the outcome without the other being able to check and balance.

If the incumbent President did not abstain from the BoD discussion, this is a significant ethical issue in my book.

The responses minimizing the issue give me an impression of the Elitist stigma this NSRCA SIG is known for. We continue down this path and we will have less than 410 members very soon.

From: Cliff Bradford [mailto:cliff357b at gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:57 AM
To: Vogel, Peter <Peter_Vogel at intuit.com>
Cc: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>; Larry Diamond <ldiamond at diamondrc.com>; davel322 at comcast.net
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Election

If and only if the Board members met in secret and discussed the election I could see a issue that the election possibly wasn’t fair and it could be concluded that it was tainted, 

But that isn’t what happened!!! 

Any member worthy of a position in the nsrca is following the election, it’s not a secret, EVERYONE KNOWS ITS CLOSE.  The discussion during a board meeting that results were close and might require a runoff is/was made public. Because the discussion was made public I see no issue or unfair advantage to any member.The Board can’t change anyone’s vote. 

And By the Way : 

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 9:40 AM Vogel, Peter <Peter_Vogel at intuit.com <mailto:Peter_Vogel at intuit.com> > wrote:

I would agree with you if that were the case Dave, but...

Disclaimer: I was not at the board meeting in question however...

If the knowledge that “the vote is very close” had been kept secret to the board, THEN we would have an ethics issue as it would allow the incumbent candidate to sway things.  However, the action the board took was to tell *everyone* via this list, district lists, AND Facebook “the vote is close, voting closes on Dec 31st” to encourage participation of the entire membership.  In my mind that’s not trying to sway the vote as it is telling everyone the same thing, regardless of which candidate they support. 

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> 

  _____  

From: NSRCA-discussion < <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on behalf of davel322--- via NSRCA-discussion < <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:23 AM
To: 'Cliff Bradford'; 'General pattern discussion'; 'Larry Diamond'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Election 

This email is from an external sender. 

If one candidate is aware of the vote count, and another candidate is not aware of the vote count, is that fair?  Does one candidate have an advantage?

If one candidate has an unfair advantage due to structural administrative process/error…..the election is tainted.

Regards,

Dave

From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> > On Behalf Of Cliff Bradford via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:25 AM
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >; Larry Diamond <ldiamond at diamondrc.com <mailto:ldiamond at diamondrc.com> >
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Election

There are only 410 nsrca members, voting electronically assures you must be logged in and can only vote once. I’m sure any mail in ballots will be verified for membership and authenticity. As long as we don’t receive 411 or more ballots I see no issue. 

I think it is the boards duty to keep track of the election process. To think that it’s possibe to sway the election by knowing its a close election is silly. In fact it may incourage a higher participation percentage and that is all good. 

The board cannot change the ballots.

We are a very small group and getting smaller because of things like this. I’m good with the election as it stands, if the board caves to the peer pressure and tosses this one, it would not change my vote. Would it change yours?  That would be more damaging than the board discussion about how close the election was. 

Perhaps we should contact the FBI to investigate any possible consequences!!!

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 8:07 AM Larry Diamond via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > wrote:

Almost feels like a lynching of the election.

If the real time vote tallies were not compromised, would everyone still think the Election should be voided? I would not. However, we may still have an integrity or ethics issue the BoD needs to deal with it, if a BoD member made such a comment as it is reckless to imply knowledge of the ongoing results. If it was not a BoD member that made the comment, then freedom of speech prevails and it’s a non-issue.

We need to know the facts. The BoD needs to take control and investigate it. If the facts are that the count was compromised, then the results should be voided and a new voting period began.

Best Regards,

Larry Diamond

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> ] On Behalf Of Ken Dunlap via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:08 AM
To: David Harmon <k6xyz at sbcglobal.net <mailto:k6xyz at sbcglobal.net> >; General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Election

+1

This is wrong at so many levels. Let’s void this election. You just don’t start tallying ballots before the election closes. 

Ken Dunlap 

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> 

  _____  

From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> > on behalf of David Harmon via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 11:07:03 PM
To: 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Election 

Plus 2 or 3 or 16…..jeeeze…

David Harmon

NSRCA 586

AMA 5053

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Jon Bruml via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:54 PM
To: Pete Cosky <pcosky at comcast.net <mailto:pcosky at comcast.net> >; Frackowiak Tony <frackowiak at sbcglobal.net <mailto:frackowiak at sbcglobal.net> >; General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Election

Yes agreed 

We will have to nullify the election and start a new process 

Jonathan Bruml

Techstyles

www.techstyles.com <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.techstyles.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc417d0380fc94894a51508d66894835c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636811384401721519&sdata=8YtFAcPkiKTqJ6VMIogt9GD3FIjqTYG9ijvYvIOFD%2FI%3D&reserved=0> 

  _____  

From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> > on behalf of Pete Cosky via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 7:52 PM
To: Frackowiak Tony; General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Election 

It may be the end of days because I agree with Frak.  

There is absolutely no reason why the data should have been available let alone discussed.  

The big question now is how do we recover? 

Sent from my mobile device

On Dec 22, 2018, at 9:52 PM, Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > wrote:

I’m sorry that you don’t see the impropriety here. You have an incumbent officer running for re-election able to see just how close the election is and then being able to drum up more votes for himself. 

This election is now tainted. No one should be able to see the vote tally before the voting period has ended. The election should be nullified, the party or parties involved in releasing the vote tally prior to the conclusion of voting should be censured and removed from the process. The election should be held again and the voting results sent to an outside party. After the end of their normal term no decisions should be made by the BOD until a proper election can be held and the newly elected officers installed.

Should we as NSRCA members not be allowed a fair election?

Tony Frackowiak

On Dec 22, 2018, at 5:41 PM, Monte Richard <mrichard at compassengineering.com <mailto:mrichard at compassengineering.com> > wrote:

The discussion was centered around the fact that the voting was close to encourage the district Vice Presidents to encourage the members in their districts to cast their votes. It appears to have worked as this election looks like it will have the highest voter turnout in NSRCA history. Certainly a lot higher then the previous election which only had a voter turnout of 12 members.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 22, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Tony Frackowiak via NSRCA-discussion < <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrcaorg> wrote:

I was looking at the minutes of the December 12th NSRCA BOD meeting. During that meeting according to the minutes there was a discussion about the current vote count in the election.  

Isn’t voting open until the end of the month?  And isn’t there a longer time for mailed in ballots to be received? Why are the votes being tallied and discussed by the Board before the end of the voting period?

That is highly unethical and smacks of voting fraud. At the very least it sounds like an attempt to influence the results. 

I will await a reply. 

Tony Frackowiak 

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-- 

Cliff

-- 

Cliff

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