[NSRCA-discussion] New Masters Sequence

[Frackowiak Tony]

Frankly John, it is not my job to create new schedules. I would have agreed to do so if asked but I have not been asked. I didn't originate the other two class proposals and I think they are fine. 

I do feel that trying to continuously band-aid a poor pattern gets you nowhere. Look at your proposal. Not much left of the Committee proposed schedule. And what is left I don't really care for. Such as the triangle loop from the top. I dislike having the snap on the top as it will make it more difficult to see wings level and therefore harder to judge. 

What we have here, and please correct me if I'm wrong, are Intermediate, Advanced and Masters proposals that have been submitted to the BOD. Apparently the BOD have approved the proposals since they have been submitted for public comment. At this point there should just be moderate changes to the proposals and then the BOD will do the final vote on them. Since this is the comment period, I am making comments. 

The Intermediate and Advanced proposals appear to be good and there has not been much, if any, negative comments made about them. But there have only been negative comments about the proposed Masters schedule. Enough to where a fresh start might be what it needs.    

As to your other comments,

It's been pretty common to make at least one of the crossbox maneuvers an option to change position or not. I was only commenting that neither of the ones in your proposal had an option. You don't want to use any options, fine, go for it.

Maybe it is time to downgrade the K of vertical square 8's. But that has not been done yet and should not be done in a proposed schedule without changing the Guide. That is what is called difficulty creep. Wish I kept all the old Sequence Committee emails just to check if it was me that stuck us with the bowtie. Might have been, but I don't remember it that way. But I am old. 

I think you have explained why the Golfball should be a 5. In the KE Humpty you are starting KE from vertical, not from a 45. It is much easier to fly a 180 degree KE loop from vertical to vertical then a 270 degree KE loop. So if the KE Hump is a 4 the KE Golfball should be a 5. Again, difficulty creep.

Well, currently just a 1/4 roll to KE, hold KE and 1/4 roll back is a 4. I guess it is open to interpretation but making the rolls 1 1/4 and not increasing the K for the maneuver again seems like difficulty creep. Not making it a 5 seems like an attempt to keep your total K below the required 63.

It just looks to me that the BOD along with the Sequence Committee made a decision that Masters needed to have it's difficulty increased. It seems to me that this was a decision made without obtaining membership input. If that is in error then please let me know how we got to here.

Tony Frackowiak 


  
On Jul 7, 2017, at 8:41 PM, John Gayer wrote:

> Tony,
> We all have a problem when looking at a sequence we didn't originate. Compound that with the problem of being too defensive about sequences we did originate. Instead of calling for fresh paper, see what you do to fix what is in front of you. 
> There is no requirement in the guide that a certain percentage of the maneuvers have to already be in the guide. So anything goes.  Looking at what is in the sequence below, all the maneuvers are variations on items in the guide, with the exception of the two integrated maneuvers which do exceed the intent expressed in the guide. The loop could be changed to a 4-pt over 180 and the golf ball could be changed to 1/2 rolls(no integration) or a completely different maneuver such as a humpty with 3/4 rolls for some variation. That meets the requirements.  
> John
> 
> 
> On 7/7/2017 6:37 PM, Frackowiak Tony wrote:
>> Both of the cross box maneuvers have no options to stay in line.      No such requirement exists, obviously could be put in.
>> 
>> Every Square Vertical 8 in the current Guide has a K of 5. Why would this one be a 4? Perhaps it is time to downgrade this class of maneuvers. They are not as difficult as they were when defined years ago. No where near as difficult as the bowtie you stuck us with.
>> 
>> Downwind KE Golf Ball is still a poor choice and should have a K of 5.  Current knife edge humpty is a 4 and downwind. Kfactors have to cover a range of difficulty and this doesn't merit a 5. What would you replace it with?
>> 
>> The KE flight with 1 1/4 rolls without some definition of the length of the KE will end up being two 1 1/4 rolls. Plus simple KE flight in the current Guide is a K4. Why should this be a K4 with the addition of two 1 1/4 rolls? Should be a 5. Not enough difficulty addition to bump it up to a 5. Look at it as  two 1 1/4 rolls with a long hesitation. Why is that a 5? The eventual maneuver guide should specify length of the knife edge.
>> 
>> Two rolls reversed in the Current Guide is a K4. The elimination of the pause makes this a more difficult maneuver yet it stays at K4? Should at least be a 5.  Take out the "no hesitation" and keep it at 4.
>> 
>> I'm sorry, but in my opinion this needs a fresh piece of paper and start over. Start by making the composition of the Sequence Committee according to the Charter.
>> 
>> Tony Frackowiak
>> 
>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 4:35 PM, John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion wrote:
>> 
>>> Let's try this one.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  	Maneuver	KF	Exit	
>>> Change maneuver to:	New K	new exit
>>> 1	Takeoff	1	 	 	 	1	 
>>> 2	Double Immelman with Knife Edge Flight inside loop then outside loop	5	Upright	U	Triangle Loop from top, 1/2 rolls on 45's, 1 1/2 snap on top leg,	5	inverted
>>> 3	1/2 Loop with Integrated 1/2 Roll	3	Upright	TA	2 1/2 turn inverted spin	3	inverted
>>> 4	Triangle Loop from top, 1/2 rolls on 45's, 1 1/2 snap on top leg	5	inverted	D	Double Immelman with Knife Edge Flight outside loop then inside loop	5	upright
>>> 5	 1/2 Square Loop with Snap Roll in down track	4	Upright	TA	Top Hat, 3 of 4 Roll up, 3/4 Roll down	2	inverted
>>> 6	 Six-sided Loop, 2 of 4 Rolls in leg 2, two 1/4 Rolls opposite in leg 4	4	inverted	U	Six-sided Loop, 2 of 4 Rolls in leg 2 and 4	4	inverted
>>> 7	Humpty Bump with Roll Options, 2 of 2 Roll up, Full Roll down; or 3/4 Roll up and down	3	Upright	TA	Stall Turn with two 1/4 Rolls down	2	upright
>>> 8	Knife Edge Flight with 1 ¼ Roll in and out	4	inverted	D	Knife Edge Flight with 1 ¼ Roll in and out	4	upright
>>> 9	Stall Turn with two 1/4 Rolls opposite up, 1/2 Roll down	3	Upright	TA	Stall Turn with two 1/4 Rolls  up, 1/2 Roll down	3	upright
>>> 10	Vertical Cuban 8 with 1/2 Roll, Full Roll	4	Inverted	U	Vertical square 8 from bottom,  full roll at mid-level, 1/2 roll 2nd mid-level	4	inverted
>>> 11	Trombone with Roll	2	Upright	TA	reverse shark, snap on 45	4	upright
>>> 12	 Golf Ball with 3/4 Rolls and Knife Edge Loop	4	Upright	D	Golf Ball with 1/4 Rolls and Knife Edge Loop	4	inverted
>>> 13	 Top Hat, 3 of 4 Roll up, 3/4 Roll down	2	Upright	TA	Humpty Bump push top, 3/4 Roll up and down	2	upright
>>> 14	 Figure Z with 4 of 8 Roll in 45	4	Inverted	U	 	4	 
>>> 15	 Inverted 2-turn Spin 	2	Upright	TA	1/2 square loop with full roll	2	upright
>>> 16	Two Slow Rolls opposite, no hesitation	4	Upright	D	 	4	 
>>> 17	 Stall turn with half rolls up and down	2	Upright	TA	 	2	 
>>> 18	Loop with Integrated Roll in top 180	5	Upright	U	 	5	 
>>> 19	Landing	1	 	 	 	1	 
>>>  	 	 	 	 	 	 	 
>>>  	Total K-factor	62	 	 	 	61	  _______________________________________________
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> 
> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20170708/7126171b/attachment.html>