[NSRCA-discussion] NSRCA-discussion Digest, Vol 134, Issue 8

Fri Jan 13 06:25:41 AKST 2017

It's easy to poke fun at the volunteer  leadership of any organization.  The criticism may or may not be deserved, but it's probably not doing much to improve anything.  I suggest that if you think the current leadership isn't getting it done for you, then try to replace them one at a time, starting with volunteering your own time, efforts and ideas.  Otherwise, you're just not being very helpful.

Ed

________________________________
From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on behalf of Robert Campbell via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:18 AM
To: Keith Hoard; General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] NSRCA-discussion Digest, Vol 134, Issue 8

What ever happened to The Popular Front?

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Keith Hoard via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
These discussions always remind me of the scene in Monty Python’s “Life of Brian” where the rebels are arguing about whether to name their movement “Peoples Front of Judea”, or “The Judea Peoples Front”.

Sent from my Windows 10 phone

From: ronlock--- via NSRCA-discussion<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 7:11
To: John Fuqua<mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com>; General pattern discussion<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] NSRCA-discussion Digest, Vol 134, Issue 8

A strong Plus 1 for John's comments.

Ron Lockhart    10 years as District II Contest Board Member

On January 12, 2017 at 8:45 PM John Fuqua via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:

Unfortunately the benefits are not readily apparent but never the less are critical to our survival.    I would offer that without NSRCA pattern would die.   AMA is not in the business anymore to promote a particular activity.   The Contest Board, all of which are NSRCA members, would have little or no direction without input from NSRCA.   I have personal experience with this when the Board also did IMAC rules.   No direction, input or consensus on direction.    Yes NSRCA is not perfect but I challenge anybody to identify a single volunteer organization which is.

I have said this a thousand times - If you want to change a rule submit a change.   Anybody can.    Cannot estimate how many times someone told me there needs to be a rule change and then did NOTHING.

We need a single voice for the community so we have some input/influence.    If you do not like it run for office and get you ideas out.

Apologies my rant.

John

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] On Behalf Of STEVE S via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:15 PM
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] NSRCA-discussion Digest, Vol 134, Issue 8

Here is my response to Peter Vogel comments on Ron Hansens questions -  See comments in red below.

I wrote this because I do not see any benefit to NSRCA other than nationals. What about the pilots who never intend to go to the nationals. AMA rules for pattern not NSRCA.

So if NSRCA only for Nationals attendants and pilots do not go to NATS where is the benefit. If the question cannot be answered reasonably and with demonstrated benefits then getting in new pilots is a lost cause.

Only been in it 5 years and becoming disheartened in NSRCA.

Not here to discount anyone but answers are not being offered just rhetoric. Also just want to say I believe the people involved in pattern are of the greatest caliber. But change or die like it or not. We need to improve and come up with real answers. I do not have them just commenting on the same rhetoric I have heard since I started and guess what wearing thin with no improvement in sight.

Steve Sobolewski

The "What are the benefits" question comes up a lot.  So much so, that Charlie wrote an excellent article which you can find on the NSRCA.us web site in the "new pilot info" section.  The important stuff is reproduced below:

We are a Special Interest Group (SIG) in the AMA. The NSRCA advances our interests to the AMA. The AMA represents all modelers within the organization, but without our voice being heard, our segment of the hobby would be forgotten, or at the very least not addressed. Many of you who attend the Nationals (NATS) may not know that the AMA had initially assigned the 2016 Precision Aerobatics NATS, to begin on July 5 th . Because of the 4 th of July holiday, and because of the usual travel involved by many to attend the NATS, this date was not acceptable. The NSRCA immediately protested, and the contest date was changed to July 10th. So as a pilot only interested in local contests, so what does not help me.

Our purpose is best stated by the following:

?a. Act as a focal point for rules development and progression. Gather intelligence from the AMA precision aerobatics community to provide the basis for AMA rules change proposals.?  Do we not usually follow FAI anyways? Except for sportsman thru masters also what progression spell it out, where ?

You may recall that last year the NSRCA made rules change proposals to the AMA, concerning telemetry, safety, specifically, electric motor arming, transmitter impound, transmitter failsafe, and weight. These rule changes were accepted by the AMA. These changes enhanced the safety of flying precision aerobatics.  How did it enhance safety ? same AMA safety rules apply to everyone nothing specific for NSRCA only rules changed were to keep up with the times and technology or everyone flying Futaba , JR radios with battery level feedback would have been disqualified. So 80% of the pilots would have been out.

? b.  Promote precision aerobatics in the general R/C community by providing leadership in all of the objectives of the society."  You need to explain this.

" c.  Enhance model precision aerobatics as a recognized sport." Exactly where is it a recognized sport except among the pattern community. I do not see it on TV or cable channels.

" d.  Develop and provide high standards in judging for competitions and provide qualifications and achievement recognition for judges.? Well let me say this. I read online and then take a test immediately afterward, but no critical information like length of line or requirements , kinda leaves it up to the individual and their perception of geometry. Need organized judging clinics and not for 2 hours, try to remember all the sequences even with Peters phenomenal scoring system . Judging is a crap shoot. So where is the high standard for judging?

The NSRCA sets standards for judging. Judging precision aerobatics in District 1 is the same as in District 7. It is through the NSRCA judging committee that the yearly judging review is published. Judging recertification is free to members. (Of course non-members can also certify for a nominal fee.)

Again so what, If I do not go to Nationals who cares.

The KFactor magazine ? The KFactor is the identity of the NSRCA. It is published once a month. It is the life blood of your pattern community. The magazine can be downloaded directly from the web site, or mailed directly to you. The advent of digital download has greatly decreased publication costs. And because of this digital capability, our editor, Scott McHarg, has delivered the KFactor on time for several years. If it?s April 1st , the KFactor is available!

Scott does a great job not knocking it but if I am paying dues for this SIG I want the news and advertising free to everyone. I can look at Tower Hobbies website free, I can even read articles online via news channels free, why not this?

There are many interesting articles in the KFactor, whether how to build a particular pattern plane, or how to paint, or which color is best suited for good visibility. The KFactor also provides a means by which your DVP?s can communicate with their district members. Yes, they usually publish contest results as part of their reports. However, contest schedules are published before the beginning of the season. They may also offer a building article from time to time. If you have an interesting article that you would like to share with your pattern buddies, submit it to your respective DVP for publications.

Agreed great articles , but guess what I already built a plane, and read on RC Groups and RC Universe and got the same information  free way before I joined NSRCA.

The NSRCA web page ? The  <http://nsrca.us> nsrca.us<http://nsrca.us> web page is your source for nformation in our pattern community. It offers contest results, KFactor access, sequences, judging, district news, and links to industry manufacturers. Your Board of Directors are in discussions on how to enhance our web page, and make it easier to navigate. Also, it has been suggested that a separate link on the web site be dedicated only to building articles. These articles will remain in this location indefinitely, for reference by our members. So, in summary, it is to your advantage to join (renew) your membership in the NSRCA. As you can see, there is a lot ?in it for me?.

-----Original Message-----
From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of nsrca-discussion-request at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-request at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 3:00 PM
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: NSRCA-discussion Digest, Vol 134, Issue 8

Send NSRCA-discussion mailing list submissions to

        nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

        http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

        nsrca-discussion-request at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-request at lists.nsrca.org>

You can reach the person managing the list at

        nsrca-discussion-owner at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-owner at lists.nsrca.org>

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of NSRCA-discussion digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Growing Pattern for 2017 - Part 2 - Culture -     What are we

      missing? (Larry Diamond)

   2. Re: Growing Pattern for 2017 - Part 2 - Culture   -       What are we

      missing? (Jay Marshall)

   3. Re: Growing Pattern for 2017 - Part 2 - Culture - What are we

      missing? (Robert Campbell)

   4. JR 12X (Olstinske Dale)

   5. Re: JR 12X (Ed Alt)

   6. Re: JR 12X (Jon Lowe)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2017 21:37:44 -0600

From: "Larry Diamond" <ldiamond at diamondrc.com<mailto:ldiamond at diamondrc.com>>

To: "'General pattern discussion'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>

Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Growing Pattern for 2017 - Part 2 -

        Culture -       What are we missing?

Message-ID: <000001d26c85$3ce115c0$b6a34140$@diamondrc.com<mailto:000001d26c85$3ce115c0$b6a34140$@diamondrc.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Before Christmas, I posted an email challenging our culture as a concern that prevents or limits growth in pattern.

My intent here is to spark discussion by offering my opinion, which is only an opinion. A healthy debate on our culture as a SIG may be a good thing.

I stated that our culture hasn?t changed since I joined the NSRCA in 2003. Peter?s e-mail below and the Hardcopy K-Factor thread is a perfect example of how our culture has not kept up with the times.

Peter?s email below, and Ron Hansen?s, in the discussion ask a very basic question that I don?t believe we as a whole have come to terms with:

What is in it for ?me? to be a member -and- participate in contests?

It is too easy to say, ?it?s the people? They aren?t willing to put in the time, they aren?t willing to invest, they are not competative in nature??

For me, that is not the answer to the problem. I?m not sold that this is the reason. It is a symptom, but not the root-cause. The problem we face in growing pattern is selling our product, ?Pattern?. Yet, before we can sell our product, we must understand what is it today.

When pattern was popular, it was because many of us were struck by somebody who was flying pattern and ?we wanted to be one of them?. I don?t see this happening today other than hit and miss.

Culture? Example? We want to take the hardcopy K-Factor away and only limit access to a server base distribution mechanism that further limits our audience. Why?, to save money for the NSRCA. I am perplexed and I say what??? Is not the NSRCA a non-profit organization? Is increased membership not the most stable way to generate funds? No?, its advertisers you say? Didn?t somebody state that we are losing advertising dollars because the businesses are not seeing the benefit from members? Is this concern not related to the NSRCA membership population as a whole?

>From my point of view, it is all connected to our culture.

My recommendation is for the NSRCA Board to pull a committee together to address the growth issue. We seem to discuss this every year. We also seem to hover around the same membership population issues. Other than some select folks giving a different spin at their contest, there is not much of a push.

I am a bit skeptical about the premise of another club class being the answer to the growth problem. I am in agreement with those that believe that is why we have the Sportsman class.

Only my opinion, I could be wrong?

What are your thoughts?????

Larry Diamond

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion

Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2017 3:13 PM

To: Ron Hansen <rcpilot at wowway.com<mailto:rcpilot at wowway.com>>; General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hardcopy K-Factor

The "What are the benefits" question comes up a lot.  So much so, that Charlie wrote an excellent article which you can find on the NSRCA.us web site in the "new pilot info" section.  The important stuff is reproduced below:

We are a Special Interest Group (SIG) in the AMA. The NSRCA advances our interests to the AMA. The AMA represents all modelers within the organization, but without our voice being heard, our segment of the hobby would be forgotten, or at the very least not addressed. Many of you who attend the Nationals (NATS) may not know that the AMA had initially assigned the 2016 Precision Aerobatics NATS, to begin on July 5 th . Because of the 4 th of July holiday, and because of the usual travel involved by many to attend the NATS, this date was not acceptable. The NSRCA immediately protested, and the contest date was changed to July 10th.

Our purpose is best stated by the following:

?a. Act as a focal point for rules development and progression. Gather intelligence from the AMA precision aerobatics community to provide the basis for AMA rules change proposals.?

You may recall that last year the NSRCA made rules change proposals to the AMA, concerning telemetry, safety, specifically, electric motor arming, transmitter impound, transmitter failsafe, and weight. These rule changes were accepted by the AMA. These changes enhanced the safety of flying precision aerobatics.

? b.  Promote precision aerobatics in the general R/C community by providing leadership in all of the objectives of the society."

" c.  Enhance model precision aerobatics as a recognized sport."

" d.  Develop and provide high standards in judging for competitions and provide qualifications and achievement recognition for judges.?

The NSRCA sets standards for judging. Judging precision aerobatics in District 1 is the same as in District 7. It is through the NSRCA judging committee that the yearly judging review is published. Judging recertification is free to members. (Of course non-members can also certify for a nominal fee.)

The KFactor magazine ? The KFactor is the identity of the NSRCA. It is published once a month. It is the life blood of your pattern community. The magazine can be downloaded directly from the web site, or mailed directly to you. The advent of digital download has greatly decreased publication costs. And because of this digital capability, our editor, Scott McHarg, has delivered the KFactor on time for several years. If it?s April 1st , the KFactor is available!

There are many interesting articles in the KFactor, whether how to build a particular pattern plane, or how to paint, or which color is best suited for good visibility. The KFactor also provides a means by which your DVP?s can communicate with their district members. Yes, they usually publish contest results as part of their reports. However, contest schedules are published before the beginning of the season. They may also offer a building article from time to time. If you have an interesting article that you would like to share with your pattern buddies, submit it to your respective DVP for publications.

The NSRCA web page ? The  <http://nsrca.us> nsrca.us<http://nsrca.us> web page is your source for nformation in our pattern community. It offers contest results, KFactor access, sequences, judging, district news, and links to industry manufacturers. Your Board of Directors are in discussions on how to enhance our web page, and make it easier to navigate. Also, it has been suggested that a separate link on the web site be dedicated only to building articles. These articles will remain in this location indefinitely, for reference by our members. So, in summary, it is to your advantage to join (renew) your membership in the NSRCA. As you can see, there is a lot ?in it for me?.

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 5:18 PM, Ron Hansen via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org%20%3cmailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> > wrote:

What are the benefits of being a NSRCA member?

You don?t need to be a member to participate in contests?

I originally joined to get the Buyers Guide and the K-Factor.

I didn?t start competing for several years after that.

Couple of ideas I have is to go to quarterly newsletters and change our model for advertisers.  Perhaps each issue has coupons rather than just advertisements.  This would give companies feedback on how many people read and buy products advertised in the K-Factor and our website.

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto: <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] On Behalf Of James Hiller via NSRCA-discussion

Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 7:02 PM

To: 'General pattern discussion'

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hardcopy K-Factor

Wow: I spent many years sitting in a desk chair in front of a PC. I'm happy with reading the K-Factor on my monitor.

Paramount to my continuing is the notice Scott sends every month telling me it's ready for download. I save them in a folder and leave them open until I'm finished reading them, sometimes as long as 10 days.

I wouldn't like to see a dues increase to cover hard copy cost for those that still want it and agree that a free copy may reduce membership.

I'm here for the long run regardless of what is decided.

Jim Hiller

Spokane WA

-----Original Message-----

From: NSRCA-discussion [ <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tom Simes via NSRCA-discussion

Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 2:53 PM

To: General pattern discussion

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hardcopy K-Factor

On 01/04/17 12:37, David Harmon wrote:

> Tom...that is an interesting twist that I had not considered....but

> then I have always been a proponent of a 'members only' email list.

> However....I like the idea of letting other modelers know of our long

> term existence....but not to give away the farm.

> Perhaps a second email list for NSRCA members could be considered for

> K-F push distribution only....keeping the open 'chat' list as it is

> that does not support attachments.

As far as list server support, I'm more than happy to accommodate whatever the community and BoD decides to do.  A minor point of clarification, the current NSRCA list configuration does allow attachments, but is size limited to 500 KB per message per community request.  Note that the request dates from when dialup was still common and people didn't want to wait 10 minutes to download a single message.

That limit is easily configurable and I would have no issue bumping it up to allow low resolution .pdf distribution of the K Factor either on the existing -discussion list or on a dedicated list for K Factor distribution.

--

Tom

======================================================================

    "Z80 system stack overflow.  Shut 'er down Scotty, she's

          sucking mud again!" - Error message on XENIX v3.0

Tom Simes                                        <mailto:simestd at netexpress.com> simestd at netexpress.com<mailto:simestd at netexpress.com>

======================================================================

_______________________________________________

NSRCA-discussion mailing list

 <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  <http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

_______________________________________________

NSRCA-discussion mailing list

 <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  <http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 14713 (20170104) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

 <http://www.eset.com> http://www.eset.com

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 14713 (20170104) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 14717 (20170104) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com

_______________________________________________

NSRCA-discussion mailing list

NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>

http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

--

Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training

Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark

Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X

Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)

  <http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg>   <https://googledrive.com/host/0B4LOPeyGAgOJUVJmU1dJMVl6WWc/AcademyModelAeronauticsLogo.png>

-------------- next part --------------

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

URL: <http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20170111/3a070835/attachment.html>

------------------------------

Message: 2

Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 08:51:37 -0500

From: "Jay Marshall" <lightfoot at sc.rr.com<mailto:lightfoot at sc.rr.com>>

To: "'Larry Diamond'" <ldiamond at diamondrc.com<mailto:ldiamond at diamondrc.com>>, "'General pattern

        discussion'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Growing Pattern for 2017 - Part 2 -

        Culture -       What are we missing?

Message-ID: <000001d26cda$fe8a42f0$fb9ec8d0$@sc.rr.com<mailto:000001d26cda$fe8a42f0$fb9ec8d0$@sc.rr.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

All I have read so far is the opinions of NSRCA members on why the organization is growing. A good marketing plan would be to ask the non-members why they are not interested, or what would entice them to become involved.

Jay Marshall

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Larry Diamond via NSRCA-discussion

Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 10:38 PM

To: 'General pattern discussion'

Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Growing Pattern for 2017 - Part 2 - Culture - What are we missing?