[NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics

Wed Sep 7 12:17:46 AKDT 2016

I agree with Mike.  I think IMAC is facing similar issue.  In order to be
competitive the perception is that IMAC planes have to be bigger than 40%
with 4 cylinder 200 cc.  I think IMAC will be able to get more
participation just limiting size and/or engine for the lower
classes.  Sorry to bring another group but I think we are facing similar
problem.  I fly both and I have seen the same issue with lower
participation in my area in the last few years.

Vicente "Vince" Bortone

On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Dr. Mike Harrison via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

> You are correct but human nature gets in the way.  Making a rule to limit
> this fixes a lot of issues. These smaller planes fly very well.  Got to
> create rules that perpetuate less expense and less difficulty, just being
> voluntary is not gonna work.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> *From:* Matthew Finley [mailto:rcfin02 at msn.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 7, 2016 2:28 PM
> *To:* Dr. Mike Harrison <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net>; General pattern
> discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>; 'Scott McHarg' <
> scmcharg at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* RE: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics
>
>
>
> My thoughts are this, and only in my opinion.... I have the choice to fly
> any aircraft I choose in any class I choose as long as it is under 11
> pounds, and no larger than 2 meter ( that's also pretty loose, as I have
> never seen a scale taken out at a regular meet for 13 years or more). If
> someone wants to go out and buy a 6s or 8s capable aerobatic bird, and fly
> Sportsman, Intermesiate, Advanced, masters, or even FAI with it, go for it.
> We all know that it will be smaller thus harder to judge, maneuvers will be
> smaller, and etc.... But they are not required to have a 2 meter ship. I
> don't see why a rule change has to be implemented in those regards as that
> is the way it is now ??
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Matthew E Finley
>
> Q.C.I Technical Assistant
>
> 248-794-8487 mobile
>
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
>
> From: "Dr. Mike Harrison via NSRCA-discussion" <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>
> Date: 9/7/16 2:38 PM (GMT-05:00)
>
> To: 'Scott McHarg' <scmcharg at gmail.com>, 'General pattern discussion' <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics
>
>
>
> I am hesitant to get in this discussion but I want to express that I
> believe we are in significant decline and I opine that it is because of the
> expense, complexity and difficulty of flying and competing.  The
> fundamental reason, I believe, is the cost, complexity and burden of time
> to simply use the current aircraft.  I have drafted but not submitted a
> rules change to affect that issue.
>
> Fundamentally, I submit that the beginning classes be restricted to
> smaller aircraft with limitations of powerplant sizes.
>
> The existing current pilots flying in those classes have their current
> aircraft grandfathered in.
>
> These classes would be sportsman, intermediate, and advanced.
>
>
>
> If you would research the cost of aircraft w 22volt systems vs our current
> systems you will find the cost of smaller aircraft to be ¼ to 1/3 the cost
> of the current 2m plane.
>
>
>
> The vast majority of parents will not spend $4000-5000 for their kid to
> compete a few times in the beginning classes, nor commit a monthly expense
> of $200+ or whatever to maintain. And then there is the crash and destroy
> $1000’s in one aircraft.  Even adults won’t commit to that kind of expense
> themselves.
>
>
>
> There is more to this but that is the basic underlying cause of the
> disease.
>
>
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *Scott McHarg
> via NSRCA-discussion
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 7, 2016 9:49 AM
> *To:* tretas513 at yahoo.com; General pattern discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics
>
>
>
> Mr. Lukas and I were having an offline conversation.  We were discussing
> why the new guys aren't getting into pattern.  The question, essentially,
> was what's the difference between those getting into other facets vs.
> pattern.  This is my opinion and will be part of my article this month in
> the K-Factor:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The answer I'm about to give you makes it sound like all is lost.  I don't
> believe it is (which is why we came up with the Club sequence) but let's
> just stick to what we know and what is obvious from the assumption
> standpoint for a moment.
>
>
>
> The answer to your question can be one word only or it can be a million
> adjectives of the same word.  That word is "cool".  The kids coming up want
> instant gratification, want to be cool, want notoriety, want to be thought
> of as the kid who can show off the best.  You simply can't do that with
> pattern.  Have you watched the fingers of these kids that fly 3D at Joe
> Nall or IRCHA?  They're slamming sticks.  Then, watch the planes /
> helicopters and see how much of the stick movement actually equates to
> control over the aircraft.  Half of the time is spent simply recovering
> from mistakes.  :)
>
>
>
> For some reason, the world has changed into a Social Media frenzy.  Kids
> feel like they're missing out if we as parents threaten to take away their
> phones as punishment.  Kids don't need to go outside to talk to friends
> because they can do it on the couch with their phones.  They want instant
> gratification and instant knowledge.  Most of the time, their friends know
> what's going on before other people at the event know because of this.
>
>
>
> Pattern is nothing like this mentality at all.  Pattern takes a lot of
> practice (as you know) and patience and set up and checking to make sure
> everything is perfect.  Practicing is boring unless you're doing it.
> There's no "wow factor".  In my opinion, THIS is what we're battling.  In
> pattern, you actually have to fly the aircraft perfectly.  There's no gyro
> to make you look better (Quads, Helicopters and Drones), there's not that
> much of an adrenaline rush (until you're in front of the judges) and
> there's no screen to stare at like in FPV racing.  Pattern is an art and it
> takes that special person, the guy that wants to be artistic, to be a
> pattern pilot.  Our costs are high for the best of the best which all of
> these kids want.  They don't want a 1980 Super Kaos to learn the skills
> required.  In almost all other facets, you can have quite good equipment,
> that is accepted by their peers, for a lot less than what it would take to
> have a "not bottom of the line" pattern plane.
>
>
> *Scott A. McHarg*
>
> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
>
> Texas A&M University
>
> PPL - ASEL
>
> Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:40 AM, tretas513--- via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Most pattern fliers know why pattern is declining but won't admit it...too
> much expense,  too much time invested for practice and traveling, and in my
> opinion (and a lot of others) turnaround sucks !
>
> Flying airplanes and competing is supposed to be fun...it used to
> be...still is in SPA !!
>
> My entire SPA airplane ready to fly costs half what the engine in my 2
> meter cost and most SPA contests are one day meets...no motels !!
>
> Disclaimer: just my opinion !!
>
>
>
> *Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone*
>
>
>
> ------ Original message------
>
> *From: *Whodaddy Whodaddy via NSRCA-discussion
>
> *Date: *Wed, Sep 7, 2016 8:40 AM
>
> *To: *Jas S;
>
> *Cc: *General pattern discussion;
>
> *Subject:*Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics
>
>
>
> 😎
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2016, at 9:11 PM, Jas S <justanotherflyr at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Isn't that like hearing a Masters pilot say the roll on the top of a loop
> shouldn't be in Masters lol. Love ya Gary
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Whodaddy Whodaddy via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Sportsman isnt easy enough ????
>
>
>
> Not sure how it could get more basic ..
>
>
>
> But wat ever works lord knows we need something to attract new blood or
> bring old blood back...
>
>
>
>
>
> G
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2016, at 1:00 PM, Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> All,
>
>
>
> This is a note from Jon Carter from the NSRCA BoD.  FYI!
>
>
>
> Announcing the NSRCA “Club Class!
>
> Whether you want to call it Club class or Novice class or whatever, it’s
> OK, as long as we get more people flying pattern! What is this? Good
> question, we have heard from the membership that it would be nice for the
> NSRCA to define a non-rulebook pattern entry level event that a CD could
> offer if they so decided. This would be a non-turnaround “old-school” type
> of pattern that any club flyer could do and yet still be challenged by. It
> will give the CD the opportunity to grab some of the “hot dog” type sport
> flyers at his club, and maybe some old time pattern pilots, and hand them a
> maneuver/downgrade sheet and say “come on out to the pattern contest next
> weekend and see what you can do!” Who knows, if he can get three or four
> club flyers to come out maybe some will think, “Hey, this is fun! I could
> learn that Sportsman pattern” Worst case it will get some more club flyers
> to participate in local events which always makes it easier to “sell” a
> pattern contest to the local club officers! So, dust off those older
> pattern planes and those sport planes and come out and have some fun! Look
> on the NSRCA website under the Sequence tab for the maneuver list and
> descriptions.
>
> https://nsrca.us/index.php/sequences
>
>
>
> *Scott A. McHarg*
>
> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
>
> Texas A&M University
>
> PPL - ASEL
>
> Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107
>
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>
>
>
> --
>
> Jason
> http://jasonshangar.weebly.com/
>
>
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