<div dir="ltr">I agree with Mike. I think IMAC is facing similar issue. In order to be competitive the perception is that IMAC planes have to be bigger than 40% with 4 cylinder 200 cc. I think IMAC will be able to get more participation just limiting size and/or engine for the lower classes. Sorry to bring another group but I think we are facing similar problem. I fly both and I have seen the same issue with lower participation in my area in the last few years. </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Vicente "Vince" Bortone</div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Dr. Mike Harrison via NSRCA-discussion <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" vlink="purple" link="blue"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">You are correct but human nature gets in the way. Making a rule to limit this fixes a lot of issues. These smaller planes fly very well. Got to create rules that perpetuate less expense and less difficulty, just being voluntary is not gonna work. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Mike <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_-5990282418645833869__MailEndCompose"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></a></p><div><div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> Matthew Finley [mailto:<a href="mailto:rcfin02@msn.com" target="_blank">rcfin02@msn.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 7, 2016 2:28 PM<br><b>To:</b> Dr. Mike Harrison <<a href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">drmikedds@sbcglobal.net</a>>; General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a>>; 'Scott McHarg' <<a href="mailto:scmcharg@gmail.com" target="_blank">scmcharg@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">My thoughts are this, and only in my opinion.... I have the choice to fly any aircraft I choose in any class I choose as long as it is under 11 pounds, and no larger than 2 meter ( that's also pretty loose, as I have never seen a scale taken out at a regular meet for 13 years or more). If someone wants to go out and buy a 6s or 8s capable aerobatic bird, and fly Sportsman, Intermesiate, Advanced, masters, or even FAI with it, go for it. We all know that it will be smaller thus harder to judge, maneuvers will be smaller, and etc.... But they are not required to have a 2 meter ship. I don't see why a rule change has to be implemented in those regards as that is the way it is now ??<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Matthew E Finley <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Q.C.I Technical Assistant<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="tel:248-794-8487" target="_blank" value="+12487948487">248-794-8487</a> mobile <u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">-------- Original message --------<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">From: "Dr. Mike Harrison via NSRCA-discussion" <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a>> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Date: 9/7/16 2:38 PM (GMT-05:00) <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">To: 'Scott McHarg' <<a href="mailto:scmcharg@gmail.com" target="_blank">scmcharg@gmail.com</a>>, 'General pattern discussion' <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a>> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">I am hesitant to get in this discussion but I want to express that I believe we are in significant decline and I opine that it is because of the expense, complexity and difficulty of flying and competing. The fundamental reason, I believe, is the cost, complexity and burden of time to simply use the current aircraft. I have drafted but not submitted a rules change to affect that issue.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Fundamentally, I submit that the beginning classes be restricted to smaller aircraft with limitations of powerplant sizes. </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">The existing current pilots flying in those classes have their current aircraft grandfathered in. </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">These classes would be sportsman, intermediate, and advanced. </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">If you would research the cost of aircraft w 22volt systems vs our current systems you will find the cost of smaller aircraft to be ¼ to 1/3 the cost of the current 2m plane.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">The vast majority of parents will not spend $4000-5000 for their kid to compete a few times in the beginning classes, nor commit a monthly expense of $200+ or whatever to maintain. And then there is the crash and destroy $1000’s in one aircraft. Even adults won’t commit to that kind of expense themselves. </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">There is more to this but that is the basic underlying cause of the disease.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Mike </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> NSRCA-discussion [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">mailto:nsrca-discussion-<wbr>bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 7, 2016 9:49 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:tretas513@yahoo.com" target="_blank">tretas513@yahoo.com</a>; General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Georgia",serif">Mr. Lukas and I were having an offline conversation. We were discussing why the new guys aren't getting into pattern. The question, essentially, was what's the difference between those getting into other facets vs. pattern. This is my opinion and will be part of my article this month in the K-Factor:</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Georgia",serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Georgia",serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Georgia",serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Georgia",serif;font-size:9.5pt">The answer I'm about to give you makes it sound like all is lost. I don't believe it is (which is why we came up with the Club sequence) but let's just stick to what we know and what is obvious from the assumption standpoint for a moment.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Georgia",serif;font-size:9.5pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Georgia",serif;font-size:9.5pt">The answer to your question can be one word only or it can be a million adjectives of the same word. That word is "cool". The kids coming up want instant gratification, want to be cool, want notoriety, want to be thought of as the kid who can show off the best. You simply can't do that with pattern. Have you watched the fingers of these kids that fly 3D at Joe Nall or IRCHA? They're slamming sticks. Then, watch the planes / helicopters and see how much of the stick movement actually equates to control over the aircraft. Half of the time is spent simply recovering from mistakes. :)</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Georgia",serif;font-size:9.5pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Georgia",serif;font-size:9.5pt">For some reason, the world has changed into a Social Media frenzy. Kids feel like they're missing out if we as parents threaten to take away their phones as punishment. Kids don't need to go outside to talk to friends because they can do it on the couch with their phones. They want instant gratification and instant knowledge. Most of the time, their friends know what's going on before other people at the event know because of this.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Georgia",serif;font-size:9.5pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Georgia",serif;font-size:9.5pt">Pattern is nothing like this mentality at all. Pattern takes a lot of practice (as you know) and patience and set up and checking to make sure everything is perfect. Practicing is boring unless you're doing it. There's no "wow factor". In my opinion, THIS is what we're battling. In pattern, you actually have to fly the aircraft perfectly. There's no gyro to make you look better (Quads, Helicopters and Drones), there's not that much of an adrenaline rush (until you're in front of the judges) and there's no screen to stare at like in FPV racing. Pattern is an art and it takes that special person, the guy that wants to be artistic, to be a pattern pilot. Our costs are high for the best of the best which all of these kids want. They don't want a 1980 Super Kaos to learn the skills required. In almost all other facets, you can have quite good equipment, that is accepted by their peers, for a lot less than what it would take to have a "not bottom of the line" pattern plane. </span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all"><u></u><u></u></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:rgb(51,51,255);font-family:"Comic Sans MS";font-size:13.5pt">Scott A. McHarg</span></b><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Texas A&M University<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">PPL - ASEL<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:40 AM, tretas513--- via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor rgb(204,204,204);margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt"><div style="margin-bottom:33.75pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Most pattern fliers know why pattern is declining but won't admit it...too much expense, too much time invested for practice and traveling, and in my opinion (and a lot of others) turnaround sucks !</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Flying airplanes and competing is supposed to be fun...it used to be...still is in SPA !!</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">My entire SPA airplane ready to fly costs half what the engine in my 2 meter cost and most SPA contests are one day meets...no motels !! </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Disclaimer: just my opinion !!</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:9pt">Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone</span></i><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">------ Original message------</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:10pt">Whodaddy Whodaddy via NSRCA-discussion </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">Date: </span></b><span style="font-size:10pt">Wed, Sep 7, 2016 8:40 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">To: </span></b><span style="font-size:10pt">Jas S;</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">Cc: </span></b><span style="font-size:10pt">General pattern discussion;</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt">Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">😎</span><span style="font-size:10pt"><br><br>Sent from my iPhone</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:10pt"><br>On Sep 6, 2016, at 9:11 PM, Jas S <<a href="mailto:justanotherflyr@gmail.com" target="_blank">justanotherflyr@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Isn't that like hearing a Masters pilot say the roll on the top of a loop shouldn't be in Masters lol. Love ya Gary</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Whodaddy Whodaddy via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a>> wrote:</span><u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor rgb(204,204,204);margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Sportsman isnt easy enough ????</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Not sure how it could get more basic .. </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">But wat ever works lord knows we need something to attract new blood or bring old blood back... </span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">G<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:10pt"><br>On Sep 6, 2016, at 1:00 PM, Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a>> wrote:</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Georgia",serif;font-size:10pt">All,</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Georgia",serif;font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Georgia",serif;font-size:10pt">This is a note from Jon Carter from the NSRCA BoD. FYI!</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Georgia",serif;font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Georgia",serif;font-size:10pt">Announcing the NSRCA “Club Class!</span><u></u><u></u></p><p style="line-height:14.5pt;margin-bottom:4.5pt"><span style="color:rgb(29,33,41);font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt">Whether you want to call it Club class or Novice class or whatever, it’s OK, as long as we get more people flying pattern! What is this? Good question, we have heard from the membership that it would be nice for the NSRCA to define a non-rulebook pattern entry level event that a CD could offer if they so decided. This would be a non-turnaround “old-school” type of pattern that any club flyer could do and yet still be challenged by. It will gi</span><span style="color:rgb(29,33,41);font-family:inherit;font-size:10.5pt">ve the CD the opportunity to grab some of the “hot dog” type sport flyers at his club, and maybe some old time pattern pilots, and hand them a maneuver/downgrade sheet and say “come on out to the pattern contest next weekend and see what you can do!” Who knows, if he can get three or four club flyers to come out maybe some will think, “Hey, this is fun! I could learn that Sportsman pattern” Worst case it will get some more club flyers to participate in local events which always makes it easier to “sell” a pattern contest to the local club officers! So, dust off those older pattern planes and those sport planes and come out and have some fun! Look on the NSRCA website under the Sequence tab for the maneuver list and descriptions.</span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p style="line-height:14.5pt;margin-bottom:4.5pt"><span style="color:rgb(29,33,41);font-family:inherit;font-size:10.5pt"><a href="https://nsrca.us/index.php/sequences" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(54,88,153);text-decoration:none">https://nsrca.us/index.php/<wbr>sequences</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p><p style="line-height:14.5pt;margin-bottom:4.5pt"><span style="color:rgb(29,33,41);font-family:inherit;font-size:10.5pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:rgb(51,51,255);font-family:"Comic Sans MS";font-size:13.5pt">Scott A. McHarg</span></b><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Texas A&M University</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">PPL - ASEL</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/nsrca-<wbr>discussion</a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/nsrca-<wbr>discussion</a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"><br><br clear="all"></span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:10pt">-- </span></span><u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:10pt">Jason<br><a href="http://jasonshangar.weebly.com/" target="_blank">http://jasonshangar.weebly.<wbr>com/</a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/nsrca-<wbr>discussion</a><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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