[NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics

Wed Sep 7 13:33:39 AKDT 2016

I have tried to fly “smaller” aircraft at several NSRCA contest but found them to non-competitive when judged against the big boys. The only saving change would be a lower class with different rules.

Jay Marshall

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Patternpilot One via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 4:54 PM
To: Atwood, Mark; General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics

Mark,

Well said... spot on !

Sa.

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Date: 9/7/16 4:51 PM (GMT-05:00) 
To: Scott McHarg <scmcharg at gmail.com>, General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics 

I’d like to present a slightly different take (though not dispelling what Mike or others are saying) but it’s specific to this new class and why I think it’s important, AND how to sell it. 

IN MY OPINION… let me start with that…

IN my opinion, pattern is all about competition, and in general, a very small percentage of society, in ANY hobby, is focused on competing.   Those that are, get the bug.  We have created MANY barriers for the competitive person to try pattern.  Cost, Commitment, Difficulty, etc, we all know them. 

The one this Club Class is trying to address, is getting your local sport guy to experience the contest environment and see if they like it.  Only a few will…and those that do, will do what they need to do to participate.  But we’re not even getting them that far.   

This allows them to grab a group of their hot shot, fun fly buddies, bring planes that already have, fly maneuvers they already know how to do, and get bragging rights amongst their peers as to who was better.   

There are MANY golfers out there… and most won’t sign up for a serious tournament.  Too tense, too expensive, too many better golfers that will make them feel foolish…etc.   But they’ll all grab their golf buddies and go play a scramble and try to win.     And just like pattern… if you actually DO sign up for a tournament, you’ll find it’s NOT tense, half the players suck more than you do, and it’s a ton of fun.

So this club class, if properly promoted… is a way to get your local club to participate.  It’s no good to get one guy… you need to get a handful under the premise that they’re competing against one another.  No pressure.  No out of town semi pro sportsman on the tour to embarrass them.  Club class is really for local flyers only.

The goal is really two fold in my mind.  One, to get local participation.  It’s added help for the CD, and added benefit for the club hosting the event.  Two, they might like it.  IF they have that competitive bug, they’ll get bit.  They’ll see how a contest flows.  See the caliber of the Novice (sorry…sportsman) pilots and realize, “hey…I can do that”.  And maybe will give it a try.  At THAT point… they’ll learn the simple turnaround that Sportsman has.  But until then, this needs to be uber simple, and heavily promoted.

My $0.02

-Mark

MARK ATWOOD

o.  (440) 229-2502

c.  (216) 316-2489

e.   <mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com> atwoodm at paragon-inc.com

Paragon Consulting, Inc.

5900 Landerbrook Drive, Suite 205, Cleveland Ohio, 44124

 <http://www.paragon-inc.com/> www.paragon-inc.com

Powering The Digital Experience

On Sep 7, 2016, at 4:07 PM, Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Mike's right.  It won't work because a few can afford the 2M modern planes and if one can have it, they all must have it. 

Scott A. McHarg

VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot

Texas A&M University

PPL - ASEL

Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107

On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Dr. Mike Harrison via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

You are correct but human nature gets in the way.  Making a rule to limit this fixes a lot of issues. These smaller planes fly very well.  Got to create rules that perpetuate less expense and less difficulty, just being voluntary is not gonna work.  

Mike 

From: Matthew Finley [mailto:rcfin02 at msn.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2016 2:28 PM
To: Dr. Mike Harrison <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net>; General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>; 'Scott McHarg' <scmcharg at gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics

My thoughts are this, and only in my opinion.... I have the choice to fly any aircraft I choose in any class I choose as long as it is under 11 pounds, and no larger than 2 meter ( that's also pretty loose, as I have never seen a scale taken out at a regular meet for 13 years or more). If someone wants to go out and buy a 6s or 8s capable aerobatic bird, and fly Sportsman, Intermesiate, Advanced, masters, or even FAI with it, go for it. We all know that it will be smaller thus harder to judge, maneuvers will be smaller, and etc.... But they are not required to have a 2 meter ship. I don't see why a rule change has to be implemented in those regards as that is the way it is now ??

Matthew E Finley 

Q.C.I Technical Assistant

248-794-8487 mobile 

-------- Original message --------

From: "Dr. Mike Harrison via NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 

Date: 9/7/16 2:38 PM (GMT-05:00) 

To: 'Scott McHarg' <scmcharg at gmail.com>, 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics 

I am hesitant to get in this discussion but I want to express that I believe we are in significant decline and I opine that it is because of the expense, complexity and difficulty of flying and competing.  The fundamental reason, I believe, is the cost, complexity and burden of time to simply use the current aircraft.  I have drafted but not submitted a rules change to affect that issue.

Fundamentally, I submit that the beginning classes be restricted to smaller aircraft with limitations of powerplant sizes.  

The existing current pilots flying in those classes have their current aircraft grandfathered in.  

These classes would be sportsman, intermediate, and advanced.  

If you would research the cost of aircraft w 22volt systems vs our current systems you will find the cost of smaller aircraft to be ¼ to 1/3 the cost of the current 2m plane.

The vast majority of parents will not spend $4000-5000 for their kid to compete a few times in the beginning classes, nor commit a monthly expense of $200+ or whatever to maintain. And then there is the crash and destroy $1000’s in one aircraft.  Even adults won’t commit to that kind of expense themselves.  

There is more to this but that is the basic underlying cause of the disease.

Mike 

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2016 9:49 AM
To: tretas513 at yahoo.com; General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics

Mr. Lukas and I were having an offline conversation.  We were discussing why the new guys aren't getting into pattern.  The question, essentially, was what's the difference between those getting into other facets vs. pattern.  This is my opinion and will be part of my article this month in the K-Factor:

The answer I'm about to give you makes it sound like all is lost.  I don't believe it is (which is why we came up with the Club sequence) but let's just stick to what we know and what is obvious from the assumption standpoint for a moment.

The answer to your question can be one word only or it can be a million adjectives of the same word.  That word is "cool".  The kids coming up want instant gratification, want to be cool, want notoriety, want to be thought of as the kid who can show off the best.  You simply can't do that with pattern.  Have you watched the fingers of these kids that fly 3D at Joe Nall or IRCHA?  They're slamming sticks.  Then, watch the planes / helicopters and see how much of the stick movement actually equates to control over the aircraft.  Half of the time is spent simply recovering from mistakes.  :)

For some reason, the world has changed into a Social Media frenzy.  Kids feel like they're missing out if we as parents threaten to take away their phones as punishment.  Kids don't need to go outside to talk to friends because they can do it on the couch with their phones.  They want instant gratification and instant knowledge.  Most of the time, their friends know what's going on before other people at the event know because of this.

Pattern is nothing like this mentality at all.  Pattern takes a lot of practice (as you know) and patience and set up and checking to make sure everything is perfect.  Practicing is boring unless you're doing it.  There's no "wow factor".  In my opinion, THIS is what we're battling.  In pattern, you actually have to fly the aircraft perfectly.  There's no gyro to make you look better (Quads, Helicopters and Drones), there's not that much of an adrenaline rush (until you're in front of the judges) and there's no screen to stare at like in FPV racing.  Pattern is an art and it takes that special person, the guy that wants to be artistic, to be a pattern pilot.  Our costs are high for the best of the best which all of these kids want.  They don't want a 1980 Super Kaos to learn the skills required.  In almost all other facets, you can have quite good equipment, that is accepted by their peers, for a lot less than what it would take to have a "not bottom of the line" pattern plane. 

Scott A. McHarg

VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot

Texas A&M University

PPL - ASEL

Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107

On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:40 AM, tretas513--- via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Most pattern fliers know why pattern is declining but won't admit it...too much expense,  too much time invested for practice and traveling, and in my opinion (and a lot of others) turnaround sucks !

Flying airplanes and competing is supposed to be fun...it used to be...still is in SPA !!

My entire SPA airplane ready to fly costs half what the engine in my 2 meter cost and most SPA contests are one day meets...no motels !! 

Disclaimer: just my opinion !!

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

------ Original message------

From: Whodaddy Whodaddy via NSRCA-discussion 

Date: Wed, Sep 7, 2016 8:40 AM

To: Jas S;

Cc: General pattern discussion;

Subject:Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics

😎

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 6, 2016, at 9:11 PM, Jas S <justanotherflyr at gmail.com> wrote:

Isn't that like hearing a Masters pilot say the roll on the top of a loop shouldn't be in Masters lol. Love ya Gary

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Whodaddy Whodaddy via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Sportsman isnt easy enough ????

Not sure how it could get more basic .. 

But wat ever works lord knows we need something to attract new blood or bring old blood back... 

G

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 6, 2016, at 1:00 PM, Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

All,

This is a note from Jon Carter from the NSRCA BoD.  FYI!

Announcing the NSRCA “Club Class!

Whether you want to call it Club class or Novice class or whatever, it’s OK, as long as we get more people flying pattern! What is this? Good question, we have heard from the membership that it would be nice for the NSRCA to define a non-rulebook pattern entry level event that a CD could offer if they so decided. This would be a non-turnaround “old-school” type of pattern that any club flyer could do and yet still be challenged by. It will give the CD the opportunity to grab some of the “hot dog” type sport flyers at his club, and maybe some old time pattern pilots, and hand them a maneuver/downgrade sheet and say “come on out to the pattern contest next weekend and see what you can do!” Who knows, if he can get three or four club flyers to come out maybe some will think, “Hey, this is fun! I could learn that Sportsman pattern” Worst case it will get some more club flyers to participate in local events which always makes it easier to “sell” a pattern contest to the local club officers! So, dust off those older pattern planes and those sport planes and come out and have some fun! Look on the NSRCA website under the Sequence tab for the maneuver list and descriptions.

 <https://nsrca.us/index.php/sequences> https://nsrca.us/index.php/sequences

Scott A. McHarg

VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot

Texas A&M University

PPL - ASEL

Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107

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-- 

Jason
http://jasonshangar.weebly.com/

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