[NSRCA-discussion] Matt Finley ( Arming Plug )

Mon Feb 23 14:02:13 AKST 2015

Lots of good comments (and a few emotional). I’m sure everyone agrees that an accidental power up is dangerous and several layers of prevention is a good thing. Whether the batteries are disconnected from the propulsion system internally or externally gets the job done. I’ve been a bit amazed by the folks I’ve observed making an internal connection while reaching through the prop arc, thereby putting their body parts at risk. Some while squatting in front of the airplane – that could change family planning! Probably more opportunity to avoid this with an external connection, especially on bipes. 

Generally at contests there’s skilled help available to secure the airplane, hold the canopy, remove an arming key, etc. The majority of our flying is done with much less help (none?) when practicing. I find it convenient to connect the pack internally and affix the canopy before moving onto the runway, where the arming key is then inserted pre-flight and removed post flight. A well designed connection is very reliable (that’ll jinx me). Trying to manage an airplane, canopy, and TX while connecting the batteries on a windy day is more than I want to risk. 

I’ve no problem doing an internal connect – say at the Nats – but nothing precludes using the arming key also. OTOH, if there were an external connect rule it really doesn’t make sense to bypass it which would probably grounds for disqualification. 

Be careful.

Earl

From: Dave Burton via NSRCA-discussion 
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 4:12 PM
To: 'General pattern discussion' 
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matt Finley ( Arming Plug )

All systems I've seen meet that code test. Use of some type of battery connector so you can remove and change batteries seems to meet that test.

Otherwise we would be soldering our batteries, ESC, and motors into one unit.

Dave

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 2:57 PM
To: Chris; General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matt Finley ( Arming Plug )

I am sure that there is more than one expert in the electrical code in this group.  Their suggestions are welcome.  I am almost 100% sure that the code requires a means to to physically disconect any type of power system in order to meet code.  Thererore, if we agree that we need to meet the electrical code the disarming plug should be part of the system.  Just that simple.

Vicente "Vince" Bortone

On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:56 PM, Chris via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

I have personally tested 2 ESCs  for 10S (budget brands) that flew just fine but would start up on their own if you turned the receiver off without unplugging the flight battery.  In both cases, I notified the manufacturer and one never replied and the other said their ESC "worked as intended" so be very careful expecting the electronics to always work as you think they should.  

I agree that high end equipment and flawless installation and usage is a safe way to go but way too many of the planes I have seen have neither of these qualities and a mechanical break in the power lead is 100% effective.

Nobody yet has mentioned probably the most important issue and that is I don't want someone else responsible for removing my canopy and plugging /unplugging the battery and in the case of preflight, making sure the canopy is reinstalled securely prior to flight or removing it on the runway only to have it blow across the concrete while trying to unplug the flight battery after flight.

Chris

On 2/23/2015 1:30 PM, Ron Hansen via NSRCA-discussion wrote:

  How many have witnessed one or more of the following events:

  Taken off without properly charged receiver, transmitter or primary batteries

  Forgot to plug in ailerons 

  Forgot to insert wing bolts

  Forgot to turn off transmitter or receiver at the end of flight 

  Forgot to disarm batteries at the end of flight

  Seems to me far too many responding to this thread suggest these things have never happen. Those folks are not being honest. 

  Argue the merits of why an external visual indicator should not be in our AMA rules. Saying it isn't foolproof or adds weight or cost too much or it never happens in your experience doesn't carry weight with me. 

  These things happen far more often than we care to admit. 

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Feb 23, 2015, at 12:42 PM, Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

    I think the failsafe demonstration should occur when the airplanes are processed - weighed and measured?

    On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 9:38 AM, Ronald Van Putte via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

    I use an arming system on my competition airplanes.  That doesn’t make my system foolproof, but I fail to see that it introduces safety issues.   Maybe the wiring could fail and the motor not start when commanded, but any reasonable wiring failure I can think of would not result in the motor running.   

    Of greater concern to me is that many pilots either have not or have improperly set up the failsafe for when the transmitter is turned off.   I witnessed an accident that resulted in the destruction of one airplane and severe damage of another when the pilot turned off his transmitter.  Fortunately, nobody was hurt.

    I am tempted to ask the Nats event director (Bob Kane) to have the line chiefs request that pilots demonstrate their airplane’s failsafe operation prior to their first official flight at the Nats.

    Ron Van Putte

      On Feb 23, 2015, at 11:05 AM, DaveL322 via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

      How many runaways have happened with electrics at pattern contests?  Since maybe 2008 when substantial numbers of electrics were being used?  Personally,  I have never seen one.

      How many IC engines have I seen inadvertently started at half or full throttle since 2008?  I have personally seen several.

      Have there been instances of of arming plugs and wiring fail?  Yes.

      A lot of things could go wrong resulting in a potential safety hazard with IC or electric patterns planes.  Having a safe procedure and sticking to it 100% is the issue.....accidents happens when procedures are not followed.  Arming plugs themselves do not make electrics safe....they do introduce another failure point.

      Regards, 

      Dave

      Sent on a Sprint Samsung Galaxy Note® 3

      -------- Original message --------

      From: Budd Engineering via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 

      Date:02/23/2015 11:50 AM (GMT-05:00) 

      To: Matthew Finley <rcfin02 at msn.com>, General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 

      Cc: 

      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matt Finley ( Arming Plug ) 

      At nearly every contest I've attended since I started flying electric in pattern (the 2004 Nats in Masters) I've seen at least one occurrence where someone retrieved a plane without removing an arming plug first.  Usually the pilot reminds the person to do it while they're carrying the plane back or as they're setting it down somewhere.  It happens with my planes too and I make sure they switch the receiver off and then I remove my canopy and disconnect the battery directly.  But before they even get that far I've taken the other steps to make sure there's virtually no chance the motor is going to run.

      My point is this.  A layered approach is the only way I've found to effectively mitigate this particular risk to the levels of safety that you claim.  Relying on someone to remove an arming plug is not a complete panacea and may lend a false sense of security that the motor system has been de-energized, when in fact it may not have been.  There's many ways to manage the risk to the desired level, the use of an arming plug is one, and may not necessarily be the best.

      Jerry

      Sent from my iPhone

      On Feb 23, 2015, at 5:29 AM, Matthew Finley via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

        I use the Ultra Deans stlye Arming Plug from F3A Unlimited, and It works very well. I would gather it provides you with a 99 % dagree of confidence that your caller , plane carrier , yourself, or anyone else will not be harmed. Yes... I do agree that there is a miniscuel chance that a pilot / caller could forget to unplug the safety, however I feel most pilots that have been doing it a while is like tying your shoes, or etc.... On all of my electrics except for indoor ships, I have some sort of disconnect. I for one would like to see it an inforced rule at all sanctioned meets not just pattern meets, that any plane over a certain size or weight must have one in order to fly. Just my three pennies 

        Matthew E. Finley
        QCI - Technology Assistant
        614-557-3846 Mobile
        mfinley at quadcityinnovations.com 

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