[NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation

shinden1 at cox.net shinden1 at cox.net
Wed Mar 13 14:56:04 AKDT 2013 

Ron you would get a honorary certificate just for competing , and the P pattern aint much different from the Masters pattern 
you could handle it!:) 
Bryan   
---- Ronald Van Putte <vanputter at gmail.com> wrote: 
> I wonder if I could enter the F3A "P" part of the event and fly the Master class maneuver schedule.  That way, I could say I flew in the F3A Team Selection Finals, the U.S. team could benefit with some $$ and the judges could get a chuckle.
> 
> Ron Van Putte
> 
> On Mar 13, 2013, at 5:42 PM, <shinden1 at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> > For, participation in the team program,
> > We could have a Pro Am setup the guys who want to fly in the team trials could enter the program under the Am, side.
> > The contest on the second tier guys could pay a slightly reduced entry to fly in the event. and only fly P.
> > But would get a first through Third "Nice Certificate", And recognition for the effort (no cost involved) Other than a loss in the judging pool.
> > 
> > This would allow more competitors to compete at the Higher level without having a unknown or Finals pattern to learn and practice 
> > I think we would have more guys testing out there skills against the top fliers without the extreme effort to fly in a fai class event.
> > It would also thin out the Masters class a little.
> > I think FAI is steady pulling away from AMA style flying and we are loosing interests in fAI because of the dedication to compete at that level.
> > 
> > 
> > Just a thought 
> > 
> > Bryan
> > ---- "Atwood wrote: 
> >> I don't think the FAI stamp program is what we want. I just got my stamp through Colleen as it is required for the world champs. None of that money days with the AMA. It all gets passed through to FAI.
> >> 
> >> I really think what we are looking for is a donation box on our renewal form to contribute to the FAI team fund And or a fund to help participate in the CIAM meeting.
> >> 
> >> Participation in this team trials tournament is a different issue which we also need to increase. That could simply means lowering the price substantially since it's no longer a separate event and requiring anybody who wants to participate in the semifinals to Sign up and pay the extra fee.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Sent from my average intelligence  phone
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Mar 13, 2013, at 6:02 PM, "Jon Lowe" <jonlowe at aol.com<mailto:jonlowe at aol.com>> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Anyone can get the stamp.  I'm checking on where the money goes.  It will probably be tomorrow before I know since AMA is closed for the day.
> >> 
> >> If you want a stamp, call Colleen Pierce at AMA, and she can take credit cards, or you can send a check to AMA to her attention.
> >> Jon
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: John Fuqua <johnfuqua at embarqmail.com<mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com>>
> >> To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
> >> Sent: Wed, Mar 13, 2013 4:45 pm
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Does one have to fly in FAI to buy an FAI stamp which I would do if I knew
> >> the money was going exclusively to the US F3A team.
> >> 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
> >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?>] On Behalf Of Michael S.
> >> Harrison
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:23 PM
> >> To: 'General pattern discussion'
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
> >> 
> >> Absolutely, these funds would require accountability and clarity. It would
> >> be best for the funds to be maintained by the SIG in an Ama account.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
> >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?>] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:57 PM
> >> To: General pattern discussion
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
> >> 
> >> +1 from me.  I could easily see requiring an FAI stamp to fly FAI at
> >> +local
> >> contests.  It would indeed go a long way toward helping us demonstrate
> >> participation, though I think we need to see where that money goes..
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Mark Atwood
> >> Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President
> >> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
> >> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Direct: 440-229-2502
> >> Fax: 440.684.3102
> >> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com?>>  |
> >> www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com/<http://www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com/>>
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Mar 13, 2013, at 4:47 PM, "Michael S. Harrison"
> >> <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net<mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net><mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net<mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net?>>> wrote:
> >> 
> >> My thoughts on this would be to make this the responsibility of the USA/FAI
> >> community.  It would probably require the blessing of AMA but  a way to do
> >> this is to require the FAI stamp to fly any AMA sanctioned competition with
> >> FAI as one of the events.  At the Nats require a $50 fee to fly semis and
> >> beyond.  Typically, anyone that flies well enough to make the semis is a
> >> committed competitor and is willing and typically understands the need to
> >> charge for the privilege of flying at that level.  This would also resolve
> >> the issue of number of flyers committed to the FAI program.
> >> 
> >> Understandably, because AMA is overwhelmed by non competition hobbyists and
> >> FAI really doesn't earnestly seek our input and the USA spends far more than
> >> anyone else to support FAI, the powers at AMA have little interest is paying
> >> big bucks for F3A, particularly since the competitors will not support its
> >> own program.  It is sad that many competitors that have more than enough
> >> money will make no real effort or even avoid the chance to help in some way.
> >> Therefore, the typical solution would be to make financial needs be met by
> >> fees of some sort.
> >> 
> >> If I were a non FAI competitor, and I was at one time, I would be more than
> >> happy to see NSRCA support the FAI program.
> >> 
> >> In my view it is an across the board issue.
> >> 
> >> regards
> >> 
> >> Mike
> >> 
> >> From:
> >> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis?>
> >> ts.nsrca.org<http://ts.nsrca.org>>
> >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion-bounces at l<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion-bounces at l?>
> >> ists.nsrca.org<http://ists.nsrca.org>>] On Behalf Of Keith Hoard
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:58 PM
> >> To: General pattern discussion
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
> >> 
> >> Or just charge the lower class guys more and tell them "Its for your own
> >> good" . . .
> >> 
> >> From: Joe Lachowski<mailto:jlachow at hotmail.com<mailto:jlachow at hotmail.com?>>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:29 PM
> >> To: NSRCA Discussion List<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org?>>
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
> >> 
> >> Hmmm!. Sounds like another justification for going totally webbased for the
> >> Kfactor. Surely, the mailing saved could cover all or part of the cost?
> >> 
> >>> From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com<mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com><mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com<mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com?>>
> >>> To:
> >> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org?>>
> >>> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:02:49 -0400
> >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
> >>> 
> >>> Correct, it's $50.
> >>> 
> >>> But we're making this more than it needs to be. We're talking about
> >> $1000/annually that's needed to send a rep to the CIAM meetings. With our
> >> membership that's less than a $1 a person. This should almost be part of our
> >> charter. I realize that AMA pattern has a life outside of FAI, but AMA
> >> Pattern was born from FAI (not the other way around) and will truly lose
> >> it's direction without it. Maybe not immediately, but over time.
> >>> 
> >>> Participation in the FAI program is necessary to continue to get AMA
> >> funding to help support our USA team.something that I do think the AMA
> >> should, and will continue to do provided that there is adequate support.
> >> It's almost a separate issue.
> >>> 
> >>> -M
> >>> Mark Atwood
> >>> Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President
> >>> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
> >>> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Direct: 440-229-2502
> >>> Fax: 440.684.3102
> >>> 
> >> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark?>.
> >> atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:atwood at paragon-inc.com>> |
> >> www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com><http://www.paragon-inc.com/<http://www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com><http://www.paragon-inc.com/>>
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 10:25 AM, Jon Lowe
> >> <jonlowe at aol.com<mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com<mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com?>>> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> The current cost of the FAI stamp is $50. Just call Colleen Pierce at
> >>> AMA
> >> and she will sign you up!!
> >>> Jon
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Jon Lowe
> >> <jonlowe at aol.com<mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com<mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com?>>>
> >>> To: nsrca-discussion
> >> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><m<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><m?>
> >> ailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>>
> >>> Sent: Wed, Mar 13, 2013 9:18 am
> >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
> >>> 
> >>> John,
> >>> The last F3A team trial cost $170 per flier which I beleive was over
> >>> and
> >> above Nats entry. The number of pilots that sign up for the trial is what
> >> AMA uses as part of the formula to see what teams they will support for
> >> World Championships. They also use performance at previous WC's in the
> >> formula. Mark Atwood has the details. I beleive Mark told me that if Andrew
> >> had not made the podium at the last WC, that we would have fallen below the
> >> threshold for AMA support for this year's WC.
> >>> 
> >>> I will check with AMA on the cost of the FAI stamp.
> >>> Jon
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: John Fuqua
> >> <johnfuqua at embarqmail.com<mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com><mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com><mailto:johnfuqua@<mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com><mailto:johnfuqua@?>
> >> embarqmail.com<http://embarqmail.com>>>
> >>> To: 'General pattern discussion'
> >> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><m<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><m?>
> >> ailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>>
> >>> Sent: Tue, Mar 12, 2013 8:42 pm
> >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> If it's a numbers thing what if everybody just paid the for an FAI stamp.
> >> I
> >>> used to buy one long ago when I flew in Team selection events. I do
> >>> not think it is very expensive. Anybody know what it the currently costs?
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From:
> >> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis?>
> >> ts.nsrca.org<http://ts.nsrca.org>><mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?>>
> >>> 
> >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion-bounces at l<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion-bounces at l?>
> >> ists.nsrca.org<http://ists.nsrca.org>><mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discu<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discu?>
> >> ssion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:ssion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>>?>] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 7:12 PM
> >>> To: General pattern discussion
> >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
> >>> 
> >>> We can run off and vilify the AMA over this, but I think some of the
> >> reality
> >>> is that there are soooooo many niche's in the FAI program that trying
> >>> to determine how to completely support them all is financially
> >>> impractical in this day and age. Yes, we're one of the pillars, but
> >>> our total participation at the FAI level is actually VERY low. I think
> >>> a total of 10 people this past cycle. That in itself is a problem, but
> >>> regardless, it become difficult for the AMA to support sending a rep
> >>> for every FAI
> >> program
> >>> that has 10 paying participants. I just checked.. .we had 11
> >>> participants in 2012 and 11 in 2010. Control line scale had about the
> >> same.
> >>> 
> >>> We should strongly consider trying to work this into the NSRCA budget
> >>> in some way. It's important to us collectively, regardless of the
> >>> total
> >> number
> >>> that actually pay for an FAI stamp. They lead the program that we
> >>> follow, and establish all the rules for our international
> >>> competitions. It's important that we (the NSRCA) have a voice at the
> >> table.
> >>> 
> >>> Just my $0.02
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Mark Atwood
> >>> Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President
> >>> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
> >>> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Direct: 440-229-2502
> >>> Fax: 440.684.3102
> >>> 
> >> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark?>.
> >> atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:atwood at paragon-inc.com>><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<http://paragon-in<mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com<http://paragon-in?>
> >> c.com<http://c.com>><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<http://paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com<http://paragon-inc.com?>>?>> |
> >>> 
> >> www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com><http://www.paragon-inc.com/<http://www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com><http://www.paragon-inc.com/>>
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On Mar 12, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Derek Koopowitz
> >>> 
> >> <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopo<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopo?>
> >> witz at gmail.com<mailto:witz at gmail.com>><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:der<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:der?>
> >> ekkoopowitz at gmail.com<mailto:ekkoopowitz at gmail.com><http://gmail.com>?>>> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Airfare alone is about $1100 and then there is food/accommodations for
> >>> 3 nights, train fare from Zurich to Lausanne and back... I would
> >>> estimate at least another $800 everything else.
> >>> 
> >>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Peter Vogel
> >>> 
> >> <vogel.peter at gmail.com<mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com><mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com><mailto:vogel.peter at gmai<mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com><mailto:vogel.peter at gmai?>
> >> l.com<http://l.com>><mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:vogel.peter at gma<mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:vogel.peter at gma?>
> >> il.com<http://il.com><http://gmail.com>?>>> wrote:
> >>> How much would you need?
> >>> 
> >>> And Ron, I think that's exactly what it is. It's part of why I voted
> >>> against Bob Brown, he said as much in his campaign statement...
> >>> 
> >>> Peter+
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Derek Koopowitz
> >>> 
> >> <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopo<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopo?>
> >> witz at gmail.com<mailto:witz at gmail.com>><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:der<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:der?>
> >> ekkoopowitz at gmail.com<mailto:ekkoopowitz at gmail.com><http://gmail.com>?>>> wrote:
> >>> That is true, Bill. I was sent a letter by the AMA stating that travel
> >>> expenses would not be paid for and that I could attend if I paid for
> >> myself
> >>> or the NSRCA paid for me to attend.
> >>> 
> >>> I can only believe that this will only further isolate us (F3A) from
> >>> the rest of the world. Yes, I'm still the rep to CIAM but face-to-face
> >> meetings
> >>> accomplish so much more than through email. I had built up a great
> >>> relationship with the movers/shakers in F3A and now I feel that it
> >>> will be in jeopardy.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Bill's Email
> >>> 
> >> <silentav8r at cox.net<mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><ma<mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><ma?>
> >> ilto:silentav8r at cox.net<mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><http://cox.net><mailto:silentav8r at cox.net<http://cox
> >> .net>?>>> wrote:
> >>> Thought you folks might be interested what is going on in the soaring
> >>> side of the FAI world. A proposal to condense several events, soaring
> >>> being one of them, has been submitted. The soaring community in the US
> >>> is taking notice that AMA is not funding the individual area reps to
> >>> go to the meeting, so the soaring folks have decided to try to fund it
> >> themselves.
> >>> Here's the thread:
> >>> 
> >>> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24403409&postcount=1
> >>> 
> >>> This is the document that has gotten them to do this:
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> http://lomcovak.cz/wp_eng/f3b/2013/03/f3b-world-championship-in-future-cance
> >>> led/
> >>> 
> >>> F3A is mentioned, but only in that it should remain as is. F3M is
> >>> talked about as a target for elimination. Again, this is a proposal
> >>> submitted for consideration.
> >>> 
> >>> Thought you might find it interesting. I recall reading that our US
> >>> F3A
> >> CIAM
> >>> rep was also told by AMA that they would not fund his travel.
> >>> 
> >>> Bill in OC
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>> 
> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma?>
> >> ilto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o?>
> >> rg<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.or<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.or?>
> >> g<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org?>>?>>
> >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>> 
> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma?>
> >> ilto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o?>
> >> rg<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.or<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.or?>
> >> g<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org?>>?>>
> >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> --
> >>> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
> >>> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
> >>> [http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg]
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>> 
> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma?>
> >> ilto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o?>
> >> rg<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.or<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.or?>
> >> g<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org?>>?>>
> >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>> 
> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma?>
> >> ilto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o?>
> >> rg<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.or<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.or?>
> >> g<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org?>>?>>
> >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>> 
> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma?>
> >> ilto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
> >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>> 
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