[NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation

Ronald Van Putte vanputter at gmail.com
Wed Mar 13 15:48:50 AKDT 2013 

I might be able to stagger through most of it, but I wouldn't want the judges to suffer major mental trauma.

Ron

On Mar 13, 2013, at 5:56 PM, <shinden1 at cox.net> wrote:

> Ron you would get a honorary certificate just for competing , and the P pattern aint much different from the Masters pattern 
> you could handle it!:) 
> Bryan   
> ---- Ronald Van Putte <vanputter at gmail.com> wrote: 
>> I wonder if I could enter the F3A "P" part of the event and fly the Master class maneuver schedule.  That way, I could say I flew in the F3A Team Selection Finals, the U.S. team could benefit with some $$ and the judges could get a chuckle.
>> 
>> Ron Van Putte
>> 
>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 5:42 PM, <shinden1 at cox.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> For, participation in the team program,
>>> We could have a Pro Am setup the guys who want to fly in the team trials could enter the program under the Am, side.
>>> The contest on the second tier guys could pay a slightly reduced entry to fly in the event. and only fly P.
>>> But would get a first through Third "Nice Certificate", And recognition for the effort (no cost involved) Other than a loss in the judging pool.
>>> 
>>> This would allow more competitors to compete at the Higher level without having a unknown or Finals pattern to learn and practice 
>>> I think we would have more guys testing out there skills against the top fliers without the extreme effort to fly in a fai class event.
>>> It would also thin out the Masters class a little.
>>> I think FAI is steady pulling away from AMA style flying and we are loosing interests in fAI because of the dedication to compete at that level.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Just a thought 
>>> 
>>> Bryan
>>> ---- "Atwood wrote: 
>>>> I don't think the FAI stamp program is what we want. I just got my stamp through Colleen as it is required for the world champs. None of that money days with the AMA. It all gets passed through to FAI.
>>>> 
>>>> I really think what we are looking for is a donation box on our renewal form to contribute to the FAI team fund And or a fund to help participate in the CIAM meeting.
>>>> 
>>>> Participation in this team trials tournament is a different issue which we also need to increase. That could simply means lowering the price substantially since it's no longer a separate event and requiring anybody who wants to participate in the semifinals to Sign up and pay the extra fee.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my average intelligence  phone
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 6:02 PM, "Jon Lowe" <jonlowe at aol.com<mailto:jonlowe at aol.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Anyone can get the stamp.  I'm checking on where the money goes.  It will probably be tomorrow before I know since AMA is closed for the day.
>>>> 
>>>> If you want a stamp, call Colleen Pierce at AMA, and she can take credit cards, or you can send a check to AMA to her attention.
>>>> Jon
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: John Fuqua <johnfuqua at embarqmail.com<mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com>>
>>>> To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>> Sent: Wed, Mar 13, 2013 4:45 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Does one have to fly in FAI to buy an FAI stamp which I would do if I knew
>>>> the money was going exclusively to the US F3A team.
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?>] On Behalf Of Michael S.
>>>> Harrison
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:23 PM
>>>> To: 'General pattern discussion'
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>>>> 
>>>> Absolutely, these funds would require accountability and clarity. It would
>>>> be best for the funds to be maintained by the SIG in an Ama account.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?>] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:57 PM
>>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>>>> 
>>>> +1 from me.  I could easily see requiring an FAI stamp to fly FAI at
>>>> +local
>>>> contests.  It would indeed go a long way toward helping us demonstrate
>>>> participation, though I think we need to see where that money goes..
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Mark Atwood
>>>> Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President
>>>> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
>>>> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Direct: 440-229-2502
>>>> Fax: 440.684.3102
>>>> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com?>>  |
>>>> www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com/<http://www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com/>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 4:47 PM, "Michael S. Harrison"
>>>> <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net<mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net><mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net<mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net?>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> My thoughts on this would be to make this the responsibility of the USA/FAI
>>>> community.  It would probably require the blessing of AMA but  a way to do
>>>> this is to require the FAI stamp to fly any AMA sanctioned competition with
>>>> FAI as one of the events.  At the Nats require a $50 fee to fly semis and
>>>> beyond.  Typically, anyone that flies well enough to make the semis is a
>>>> committed competitor and is willing and typically understands the need to
>>>> charge for the privilege of flying at that level.  This would also resolve
>>>> the issue of number of flyers committed to the FAI program.
>>>> 
>>>> Understandably, because AMA is overwhelmed by non competition hobbyists and
>>>> FAI really doesn't earnestly seek our input and the USA spends far more than
>>>> anyone else to support FAI, the powers at AMA have little interest is paying
>>>> big bucks for F3A, particularly since the competitors will not support its
>>>> own program.  It is sad that many competitors that have more than enough
>>>> money will make no real effort or even avoid the chance to help in some way.
>>>> Therefore, the typical solution would be to make financial needs be met by
>>>> fees of some sort.
>>>> 
>>>> If I were a non FAI competitor, and I was at one time, I would be more than
>>>> happy to see NSRCA support the FAI program.
>>>> 
>>>> In my view it is an across the board issue.
>>>> 
>>>> regards
>>>> 
>>>> Mike
>>>> 
>>>> From:
>>>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis?>
>>>> ts.nsrca.org<http://ts.nsrca.org>>
>>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion-bounces at l<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion-bounces at l?>
>>>> ists.nsrca.org<http://ists.nsrca.org>>] On Behalf Of Keith Hoard
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:58 PM
>>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>>>> 
>>>> Or just charge the lower class guys more and tell them "Its for your own
>>>> good" . . .
>>>> 
>>>> From: Joe Lachowski<mailto:jlachow at hotmail.com<mailto:jlachow at hotmail.com?>>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:29 PM
>>>> To: NSRCA Discussion List<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org?>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>>>> 
>>>> Hmmm!. Sounds like another justification for going totally webbased for the
>>>> Kfactor. Surely, the mailing saved could cover all or part of the cost?
>>>> 
>>>>> From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com<mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com><mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com<mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com?>>
>>>>> To:
>>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org?>>
>>>>> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:02:49 -0400
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>>>>> 
>>>>> Correct, it's $50.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But we're making this more than it needs to be. We're talking about
>>>> $1000/annually that's needed to send a rep to the CIAM meetings. With our
>>>> membership that's less than a $1 a person. This should almost be part of our
>>>> charter. I realize that AMA pattern has a life outside of FAI, but AMA
>>>> Pattern was born from FAI (not the other way around) and will truly lose
>>>> it's direction without it. Maybe not immediately, but over time.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Participation in the FAI program is necessary to continue to get AMA
>>>> funding to help support our USA team.something that I do think the AMA
>>>> should, and will continue to do provided that there is adequate support.
>>>> It's almost a separate issue.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -M
>>>>> Mark Atwood
>>>>> Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President
>>>>> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
>>>>> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Direct: 440-229-2502
>>>>> Fax: 440.684.3102
>>>>> 
>>>> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark?>.
>>>> atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:atwood at paragon-inc.com>> |
>>>> www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com><http://www.paragon-inc.com/<http://www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com><http://www.paragon-inc.com/>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 10:25 AM, Jon Lowe
>>>> <jonlowe at aol.com<mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com<mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com?>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> The current cost of the FAI stamp is $50. Just call Colleen Pierce at
>>>>> AMA
>>>> and she will sign you up!!
>>>>> Jon
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Jon Lowe
>>>> <jonlowe at aol.com<mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com<mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com?>>>
>>>>> To: nsrca-discussion
>>>> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><m<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><m?>
>>>> ailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>>
>>>>> Sent: Wed, Mar 13, 2013 9:18 am
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>>>>> 
>>>>> John,
>>>>> The last F3A team trial cost $170 per flier which I beleive was over
>>>>> and
>>>> above Nats entry. The number of pilots that sign up for the trial is what
>>>> AMA uses as part of the formula to see what teams they will support for
>>>> World Championships. They also use performance at previous WC's in the
>>>> formula. Mark Atwood has the details. I beleive Mark told me that if Andrew
>>>> had not made the podium at the last WC, that we would have fallen below the
>>>> threshold for AMA support for this year's WC.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I will check with AMA on the cost of the FAI stamp.
>>>>> Jon
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: John Fuqua
>>>> <johnfuqua at embarqmail.com<mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com><mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com><mailto:johnfuqua@<mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com><mailto:johnfuqua@?>
>>>> embarqmail.com<http://embarqmail.com>>>
>>>>> To: 'General pattern discussion'
>>>> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><m<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><m?>
>>>> ailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>>
>>>>> Sent: Tue, Mar 12, 2013 8:42 pm
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> If it's a numbers thing what if everybody just paid the for an FAI stamp.
>>>> I
>>>>> used to buy one long ago when I flew in Team selection events. I do
>>>>> not think it is very expensive. Anybody know what it the currently costs?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From:
>>>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis?>
>>>> ts.nsrca.org<http://ts.nsrca.org>><mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?>>
>>>>> 
>>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion-bounces at l<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion-bounces at l?>
>>>> ists.nsrca.org<http://ists.nsrca.org>><mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discu<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discu?>
>>>> ssion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:ssion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>>?>] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 7:12 PM
>>>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>>>>> 
>>>>> We can run off and vilify the AMA over this, but I think some of the
>>>> reality
>>>>> is that there are soooooo many niche's in the FAI program that trying
>>>>> to determine how to completely support them all is financially
>>>>> impractical in this day and age. Yes, we're one of the pillars, but
>>>>> our total participation at the FAI level is actually VERY low. I think
>>>>> a total of 10 people this past cycle. That in itself is a problem, but
>>>>> regardless, it become difficult for the AMA to support sending a rep
>>>>> for every FAI
>>>> program
>>>>> that has 10 paying participants. I just checked.. .we had 11
>>>>> participants in 2012 and 11 in 2010. Control line scale had about the
>>>> same.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We should strongly consider trying to work this into the NSRCA budget
>>>>> in some way. It's important to us collectively, regardless of the
>>>>> total
>>>> number
>>>>> that actually pay for an FAI stamp. They lead the program that we
>>>>> follow, and establish all the rules for our international
>>>>> competitions. It's important that we (the NSRCA) have a voice at the
>>>> table.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just my $0.02
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mark Atwood
>>>>> Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President
>>>>> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
>>>>> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Direct: 440-229-2502
>>>>> Fax: 440.684.3102
>>>>> 
>>>> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark?>.
>>>> atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:atwood at paragon-inc.com>><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<http://paragon-in<mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com<http://paragon-in?>
>>>> c.com<http://c.com>><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<http://paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com<http://paragon-inc.com?>>?>> |
>>>>> 
>>>> www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com><http://www.paragon-inc.com/<http://www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com><http://www.paragon-inc.com/>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 12, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Derek Koopowitz
>>>>> 
>>>> <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopo<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopo?>
>>>> witz at gmail.com<mailto:witz at gmail.com>><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:der<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:der?>
>>>> ekkoopowitz at gmail.com<mailto:ekkoopowitz at gmail.com><http://gmail.com>?>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Airfare alone is about $1100 and then there is food/accommodations for
>>>>> 3 nights, train fare from Zurich to Lausanne and back... I would
>>>>> estimate at least another $800 everything else.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Peter Vogel
>>>>> 
>>>> <vogel.peter at gmail.com<mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com><mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com><mailto:vogel.peter at gmai<mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com><mailto:vogel.peter at gmai?>
>>>> l.com<http://l.com>><mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:vogel.peter at gma<mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:vogel.peter at gma?>
>>>> il.com<http://il.com><http://gmail.com>?>>> wrote:
>>>>> How much would you need?
>>>>> 
>>>>> And Ron, I think that's exactly what it is. It's part of why I voted
>>>>> against Bob Brown, he said as much in his campaign statement...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Peter+
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Derek Koopowitz
>>>>> 
>>>> <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopo<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopo?>
>>>> witz at gmail.com<mailto:witz at gmail.com>><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:der<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:der?>
>>>> ekkoopowitz at gmail.com<mailto:ekkoopowitz at gmail.com><http://gmail.com>?>>> wrote:
>>>>> That is true, Bill. I was sent a letter by the AMA stating that travel
>>>>> expenses would not be paid for and that I could attend if I paid for
>>>> myself
>>>>> or the NSRCA paid for me to attend.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I can only believe that this will only further isolate us (F3A) from
>>>>> the rest of the world. Yes, I'm still the rep to CIAM but face-to-face
>>>> meetings
>>>>> accomplish so much more than through email. I had built up a great
>>>>> relationship with the movers/shakers in F3A and now I feel that it
>>>>> will be in jeopardy.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Bill's Email
>>>>> 
>>>> <silentav8r at cox.net<mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><ma<mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><ma?>
>>>> ilto:silentav8r at cox.net<mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><http://cox.net><mailto:silentav8r at cox.net<http://cox
>>>> .net>?>>> wrote:
>>>>> Thought you folks might be interested what is going on in the soaring
>>>>> side of the FAI world. A proposal to condense several events, soaring
>>>>> being one of them, has been submitted. The soaring community in the US
>>>>> is taking notice that AMA is not funding the individual area reps to
>>>>> go to the meeting, so the soaring folks have decided to try to fund it
>>>> themselves.
>>>>> Here's the thread:
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24403409&postcount=1
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is the document that has gotten them to do this:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> http://lomcovak.cz/wp_eng/f3b/2013/03/f3b-world-championship-in-future-cance
>>>>> led/
>>>>> 
>>>>> F3A is mentioned, but only in that it should remain as is. F3M is
>>>>> talked about as a target for elimination. Again, this is a proposal
>>>>> submitted for consideration.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thought you might find it interesting. I recall reading that our US
>>>>> F3A
>>>> CIAM
>>>>> rep was also told by AMA that they would not fund his travel.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bill in OC
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>> 
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma?>
>>>> ilto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o?>
>>>> rg<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.or<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.or?>
>>>> g<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org?>>?>>
>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>> 
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma?>
>>>> ilto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o?>
>>>> rg<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.or<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.or?>
>>>> g<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org?>>?>>
>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
>>>>> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
>>>>> [http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg]
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>> 
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma?>
>>>> ilto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o?>
>>>> rg<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.or<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.or?>
>>>> g<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org?>>?>>
>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>> 
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma?>
>>>> ilto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o?>
>>>> rg<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.or<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.or?>
>>>> g<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org?>>?>>
>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>> 
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma?>
>>>> ilto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>> 
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma?>
>>>> ilto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>> 
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma?>
>>>> ilto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>> 
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><ma?>
>>>> ilto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o?>
>>>>> rg> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org?>>
>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org?>>
>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>> 
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>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
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>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

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