[NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation

Wed Mar 13 06:42:52 AKDT 2013

FAI is just another entitlement program.  It is all clear to me now!!!!

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ronald Van Putte
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 8:22 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation

Mark will not believe this, but his response made me start thinking.  For 
years, all the SIGs involved with the FAI have been having the AMA pay fees 
to the FAI to support our relationship with them.  In essence, AMA has been 
taxing all AMA members via the dues so that AMA could pay the FAI on our 
behalf.  If that doesn't sound like welfare, I'm not sure what does.  I 
think it's time we pay our own way and stop expecting all AMA members to 
assist us.  However, if all SIGs start paying the FAI in lieu of the AMA 
doing it, it is reasonable to expect a reduction in AMA dues.

Ron Van Putte

On Mar 13, 2013, at 7:51 AM, Atwood, Mark wrote:

> It would be much cheaper to just get everyone to anti up $1.50 in 
> additional dues, or try to allocate that in the budget.
>
> This really is important to our facet of the hobby, and it's not that much 
> money when we're only talking about our niche.  The challenge for the AMA 
> is that the collection of "niches" keeps getting bigger (now we've added 
> F3P?) so there's more and more areas to represent, and fewer and fewer 
> participants in each area.
>
>
> Mark Atwood
> Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President
> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Direct: 440-229-2502
> Fax: 440.684.3102
> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com  |  www.paragon-inc.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 12, 2013, at 9:42 PM, John Fuqua <johnfuqua at embarqmail.com> wrote:
>
> If it's a numbers thing what if everybody just paid the for an FAI stamp. 
> I
> used to buy one long ago when I flew in Team selection events.  I do not
> think it is very expensive.  Anybody know what it the currently costs?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, 
> Mark
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 7:12 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>
> We can run off and vilify the AMA over this, but I think some of the 
> reality
> is that there are soooooo many niche's in the FAI program that trying to
> determine how to completely support them all is financially impractical in
> this day and age.  Yes, we're one of the pillars, but our total
> participation at the FAI level is actually VERY low.  I think a total of 
> 10
> people this past cycle.  That in itself is a problem, but regardless, it
> become difficult for the AMA to support sending a rep for every FAI 
> program
> that has 10 paying participants.    I just checked.. .we had 11 
> participants
> in 2012 and 11 in 2010.  Control line scale had about the same.
>
> We should strongly consider trying to work this into the NSRCA budget in
> some way.  It's important to us collectively, regardless of the total 
> number
> that actually pay for an FAI stamp.  They lead the program that we follow,
> and establish all the rules for our international competitions.  It's
> important that we (the NSRCA) have a voice at the table.
>
> Just my $0.02
>
>
> Mark Atwood
> Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President
> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Direct: 440-229-2502
> Fax: 440.684.3102
> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com>  |
> www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 12, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Derek Koopowitz
> <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Airfare alone is about $1100 and then there is food/accommodations for 3
> nights, train fare from Zurich to Lausanne and back... I would estimate at
> least another $800 everything else.
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Peter Vogel
> <vogel.peter at gmail.com<mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com>> wrote:
> How much would you need?
>
> And Ron, I think that's exactly what it is.  It's part of why I voted
> against Bob Brown, he said as much in his campaign statement...
>
> Peter+
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Derek Koopowitz
> <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>> wrote:
> That is true, Bill.  I was sent a letter by the AMA stating that travel
> expenses would not be paid for and that I could attend if I paid for 
> myself
> or the NSRCA paid for me to attend.
>
> I can only believe that this will only further isolate us (F3A) from the
> rest of the world.  Yes, I'm still the rep to CIAM but face-to-face 
> meetings
> accomplish so much more than through email.  I had built up a great
> relationship with the movers/shakers in F3A and now I feel that it will be
> in jeopardy.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Bill's Email
> <silentav8r at cox.net<mailto:silentav8r at cox.net>> wrote:
> Thought you folks might be interested what is going on in the soaring side
> of the FAI world. A proposal to condense several events, soaring being one
> of them, has been submitted. The soaring community in the US is taking
> notice that AMA is not funding the individual area reps to go to the
> meeting, so the soaring folks have decided to try to fund it themselves.
> Here's the thread:
>
> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24403409&postcount=1
>
> This is the document that has gotten them to do this:
>
> http://lomcovak.cz/wp_eng/f3b/2013/03/f3b-world-championship-in-future-cance
> led/
>
> F3A is mentioned, but only in that it should remain as is. F3M is talked
> about as a target for elimination. Again, this is a proposal submitted for
> consideration.
>
> Thought you might find it interesting. I recall reading that our US F3A 
> CIAM
> rep was also told by AMA that they would not fund his travel.
>
> Bill in OC
>
>
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> --
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