[NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation

Wed Mar 13 06:08:05 AKDT 2013

OTOH, competition drives the technological advances that benefits all, so it
goes both ways.

Verne Koester

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Van
Putte
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 9:23 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation

Mark will not believe this, but his response made me start thinking.  For
years, all the SIGs involved with the FAI have been having the AMA pay fees
to the FAI to support our relationship with them.  In essence, AMA has been
taxing all AMA members via the dues so that AMA could pay the FAI on our
behalf.  If that doesn't sound like welfare, I'm not sure what does.  I
think it's time we pay our own way and stop expecting all AMA members to
assist us.  However, if all SIGs start paying the FAI in lieu of the AMA
doing it, it is reasonable to expect a reduction in AMA dues.

Ron Van Putte

On Mar 13, 2013, at 7:51 AM, Atwood, Mark wrote:

> It would be much cheaper to just get everyone to anti up $1.50 in
additional dues, or try to allocate that in the budget. 
> 
> This really is important to our facet of the hobby, and it's not that much
money when we're only talking about our niche.  The challenge for the AMA is
that the collection of "niches" keeps getting bigger (now we've added F3P?)
so there's more and more areas to represent, and fewer and fewer
participants in each area.  
> 
> 
> Mark Atwood
> Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President
> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Direct: 440-229-2502
> Fax: 440.684.3102
> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com  |  www.paragon-inc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 12, 2013, at 9:42 PM, John Fuqua <johnfuqua at embarqmail.com> wrote:
> 
> If it's a numbers thing what if everybody just paid the for an FAI 
> stamp.  I used to buy one long ago when I flew in Team selection 
> events.  I do not think it is very expensive.  Anybody know what it the
currently costs?
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, 
> Mark
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 7:12 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
> 
> We can run off and vilify the AMA over this, but I think some of the 
> reality is that there are soooooo many niche's in the FAI program that 
> trying to determine how to completely support them all is financially 
> impractical in this day and age.  Yes, we're one of the pillars, but 
> our total participation at the FAI level is actually VERY low.  I 
> think a total of 10 people this past cycle.  That in itself is a 
> problem, but regardless, it become difficult for the AMA to support
sending a rep for every FAI program
> that has 10 paying participants.    I just checked.. .we had 11
participants
> in 2012 and 11 in 2010.  Control line scale had about the same.
> 
> We should strongly consider trying to work this into the NSRCA budget 
> in some way.  It's important to us collectively, regardless of the 
> total number that actually pay for an FAI stamp.  They lead the 
> program that we follow, and establish all the rules for our 
> international competitions.  It's important that we (the NSRCA) have a
voice at the table.
> 
> Just my $0.02
> 
> 
> Mark Atwood
> Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President
> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Direct: 440-229-2502
> Fax: 440.684.3102
> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com>  | 
> www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 12, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Derek Koopowitz 
> <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Airfare alone is about $1100 and then there is food/accommodations for 
> 3 nights, train fare from Zurich to Lausanne and back... I would 
> estimate at least another $800 everything else.
> 
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Peter Vogel 
> <vogel.peter at gmail.com<mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com>> wrote:
> How much would you need?
> 
> And Ron, I think that's exactly what it is.  It's part of why I voted 
> against Bob Brown, he said as much in his campaign statement...
> 
> Peter+
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Derek Koopowitz 
> <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>> wrote:
> That is true, Bill.  I was sent a letter by the AMA stating that 
> travel expenses would not be paid for and that I could attend if I 
> paid for myself or the NSRCA paid for me to attend.
> 
> I can only believe that this will only further isolate us (F3A) from 
> the rest of the world.  Yes, I'm still the rep to CIAM but 
> face-to-face meetings accomplish so much more than through email.  I 
> had built up a great relationship with the movers/shakers in F3A and 
> now I feel that it will be in jeopardy.
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Bill's Email 
> <silentav8r at cox.net<mailto:silentav8r at cox.net>> wrote:
> Thought you folks might be interested what is going on in the soaring 
> side of the FAI world. A proposal to condense several events, soaring 
> being one of them, has been submitted. The soaring community in the US 
> is taking notice that AMA is not funding the individual area reps to 
> go to the meeting, so the soaring folks have decided to try to fund it
themselves.
> Here's the thread:
> 
> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24403409&postcount=1
> 
> This is the document that has gotten them to do this:
> 
> http://lomcovak.cz/wp_eng/f3b/2013/03/f3b-world-championship-in-future
> -cance
> led/
> 
> F3A is mentioned, but only in that it should remain as is. F3M is 
> talked about as a target for elimination. Again, this is a proposal 
> submitted for consideration.
> 
> Thought you might find it interesting. I recall reading that our US 
> F3A CIAM rep was also told by AMA that they would not fund his travel.
> 
> Bill in OC
> 
> 
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> 
> --
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