[NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at the fields where you compete

Anthony Romano anthonyr105 at hotmail.com
Fri Dec 9 05:14:30 AKST 2011


Peter,
 
Thank you for taking the initiative to bring forth this idea. Working in manufacturing I know how much people like to shoot at a something new.
 
 Personally, I think this would be a great system. The ideas of capturing downgrades to a reviewable screen that would be sent via wifi to the scoring computer is great. I am always the last judge to submit my sheets for the time it takes me to transcribe them. Reducing the anxiety of knowing I am holding up the flight line would definitely make judging a more pleasurable experience and I may even get better at it.
Also, cutting down the time that volunteers are chained to the computer punching in scores is tremendous.
Of course there will be bugs and issues and someone will be running around pulling there hair out looking for score sheets and pencils at first but we could certainly make this happen. The scorekeeper is the toughest and most critical job at any contest. Anything that simplifies the process will make it easier and more fun to run contests!
 
I just got an iPad and don't have a smart phone so I can't comment on 3G in D1. Most of the sites in the district do have reasonable cell service if that is any indication. Also, I would happily volunteer my iPad for use in the future.
 
I love the new scoring database that has been built and the ability to review scores, weeks and months later as well as compare scores in other districts. Thanks to all who made this happen! It is the hard work of so many volunteers that makes all of this great sport possible.
 
Anthony Romano
 



Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 16:49:24 -0800
From: vogel.peter at gmail.com
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at the fields where you compete

We haven't talked about paper yet...


At a bare minimum all scores would be kept on the local device as well, in essence you'd have 3 electronic copies of all scores when everything goes right: on the local device, in the cloud, and on the scoring computer.  


Little blue tooth printers that print on cash register receipt paper are very inexpensive and could be used to print if a paper trail is needed (i.e. for the nats) as a backup to the electronics.


Peter+


On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Dave Burton <burtona at atmc.net> wrote:

Is it really a good idea to give up a paper trail of scores? What happens when the system fails and you lose a whole flight, or round, or contest, before the data is captured by a scoring computer with some sort of back up?
But that could never happen with today's computer technology, right?
Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:46 PM
To: Marty King
Cc: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at the fields where you compete

What if we have a system with only 3 buttoms.  1 point & 1/2 point deductions and enter.  When you hit enter,  the systen gives you next manuever in one ear head phone and store the deductions of previous manuever.  Just dreaming but could be good.  How many times we miss something important because we don't remember the next manuever?  Always keep pencil and paper as backup just in case. If judging FAI and judge hits 1/2 point will advice in the ear phone that is not valid option in FAI.

Vicente "Vince" Bortone
----- Original Message -----
From: Marty King &lt;mking46516 at yahoo.com&gt;
To: General pattern discussion &lt;nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org&gt;
Sent: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 22:31:55 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at the fields where you compete
Spending the past 23 years in IT and doing scoring at the both the district level and Nats I have to chime in.
I have found, that since I use both a tablet and Iphone for all my communication these days, you can not be 100% sure of a consistent keystroke on a touch screen.  And if you miss just one well placed digit, it distracts you and sets off a lot of unwanted fumbling. Unless the device wrote to a file that could be checked by the judge for correctness prior to being sent over the wireless, there would be a lot of issues. As a point of history we moved off of Scantron sheets at the Nats so we could do several things. One big one was to try and put the judges eyes back on the airplane. Second was to lower the expectation of what scribes, if used, had to do (we were using outside scribes) Then third was to have three eyes checking the data, the judges to make sure the score sheet was filled in completely, the data entry person to input and a data verification person to check the data.
I think the wireless aspect (especially a secure 2.4 or 5.8) may have some merit, especially if used at the Nats, we could send and import a judges complete score sheet per pilot. A scratch pad would still be used for the raw scoring, but as now, it could be transferred instead to a wireless device instead of a score sheet and sent to the Host scoring PC or server.  This would alleviate the second check of the data at scoring, as no data would actually be keypunched. You also would not need runners and scoring would take place even more timely than it already does now. If any questions would arise (as they do at the Nats) we could go back to the judges scoring pad on site for final verification. Right now we simply pull the score sheet and handle the issue.
We had similar issues with ones writing directly on the Scantron score sheets, not watching the plane, loosing their place.... Before we changed to hand written score sheets in 2005, I went through the 2003 & 2004 Scantron sheets and there were a LOT of errors and NO's on them.
If the cell system was perfect ( can you hear me now.....) and it isn't by a long shot in many areas of the county, sending individual keystrokes would be a challenge.
One other system some of you may be aware of is in the field of Education. There are classroom systems out that allow students using handheld clickers (think of a small TV remote) to enter answers in real time. The data is collected and displayed, how many right, how many wrong etc. This is based on both Bluetooth and 2.4 ghz at the present time and prices for systems range from 500.00 up to 2495.00.  The problem still is hitting the correct keys consistently. When testing the first systems in 2005 we had students that said they answered correctly, but the software said otherwise. Either they lied or maybe press the wrong button. There was no way to check, as the clickers do not hold a file, they were real time.
Real time data entry is fast. However, in competition consistency and accuracy is a must, but it is hard to achieve both in real time. You need a way to double check and verify. I know competitors want true and accurate scores. Otherwise, there is no reason to fly in front of judges.
Just a few thoughts,
Marty
D4
NSRCA 2551
AMA 9945 CD LM
Marty King
574-304-5781
56632 Boss Blvd. Elkhart, Indiana 46516
________________________________
 From: Phil S. <chuenkan at comcast.net>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at the fields where you compete
Jim is correct -- I spent the last 10 years of my career studying
driver distraction (for the FHWA) in a driving simulator.  I have said
for a LONG time, that eyes-on-road and hands-on-wheel (with the
"hands-free methods) does NOT mean mind on-driving-task.  I have used
the van Putte method, and it WORKS.  People can NOT multitask, any more
than a single-core CPU can, and while one task is swapped out, it task
will suffer, no matter how short the swap-time is.
On 12/8/2011 12:32 PM, J N Hiller wrote:
>Hear we go
again!
>Keeping 'eyes
on airplane' is of little benefit when the brain's concentration or
thought is
elsewhere. The distraction incurred trying to operate a remote devise
will
likely outweigh the benefits, at least for many of us willing to admit
it. I
find writing numbers in a line along the edge of a clipboard to be the
least distracting.
>
>Jim
--
Phil Spelt, KCRC President
AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member
SPA 177 Board Member
(865) 435-1476v, (865) 604-0541c
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion



-- 
Did you know? Arthritis affects people in all age groups including nearly 300,000 children.
Please help me ride 525 miles down the California coast to support Arthritis Research
http://2011cccnca.kintera.org/pvogel


_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion 		 	   		  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20111209/025f7d56/attachment.html>


More information about the NSRCA-discussion mailing list