[NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at the fields where you compete

Thu Dec 8 15:49:28 AKST 2011

We haven't talked about paper yet...

At a bare minimum all scores would be kept on the local device as well, in
essence you'd have 3 electronic copies of all scores when everything goes
right: on the local device, in the cloud, and on the scoring computer.

Little blue tooth printers that print on cash register receipt paper are
very inexpensive and could be used to print if a paper trail is needed
(i.e. for the nats) as a backup to the electronics.

Peter+

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Dave Burton <burtona at atmc.net> wrote:

> Is it really a good idea to give up a paper trail of scores? What happens
> when the system fails and you lose a whole flight, or round, or contest,
> before the data is captured by a scoring computer with some sort of back up?
> But that could never happen with today's computer technology, right?
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:
> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince"
> Bortone
> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:46 PM
> To: Marty King
> Cc: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service
> at the fields where you compete
>
> What if we have a system with only 3 buttoms.  1 point & 1/2 point
> deductions and enter.  When you hit enter,  the systen gives you next
> manuever in one ear head phone and store the deductions of previous
> manuever.  Just dreaming but could be good.  How many times we miss
> something important because we don't remember the next manuever?  Always
> keep pencil and paper as backup just in case. If judging FAI and judge hits
> 1/2 point will advice in the ear phone that is not valid option in FAI.
>
> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marty King &lt;mking46516 at yahoo.com&gt;
> To: General pattern discussion &lt;nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org&gt;
> Sent: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 22:31:55 -0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service
> at the fields where you compete
> Spending the past 23 years in IT and doing scoring at the both the
> district level and Nats I have to chime in.
> I have found, that since I use both a tablet and Iphone for all my
> communication these days, you can not be 100% sure of a consistent
> keystroke on a touch screen.  And if you miss just one well placed digit,
> it distracts you and sets off a lot of unwanted fumbling. Unless the device
> wrote to a file that could be checked by the judge for correctness prior to
> being sent over the wireless, there would be a lot of issues. As a point of
> history we moved off of Scantron sheets at the Nats so we could do several
> things. One big one was to try and put the judges eyes back on the
> airplane. Second was to lower the expectation of what scribes, if used, had
> to do (we were using outside scribes) Then third was to have three eyes
> checking the data, the judges to make sure the score sheet was filled in
> completely, the data entry person to input and a data verification person
> to check the data.
> I think the wireless aspect (especially a secure 2.4 or 5.8) may have some
> merit, especially if used at the Nats, we could send and import a judges
> complete score sheet per pilot. A scratch pad would still be used for the
> raw scoring, but as now, it could be transferred instead to a wireless
> device instead of a score sheet and sent to the Host scoring PC or server.
>  This would alleviate the second check of the data at scoring, as no data
> would actually be keypunched. You also would not need runners and scoring
> would take place even more timely than it already does now. If any
> questions would arise (as they do at the Nats) we could go back to the
> judges scoring pad on site for final verification. Right now we simply pull
> the score sheet and handle the issue.
> We had similar issues with ones writing directly on the Scantron score
> sheets, not watching the plane, loosing their place.... Before we changed
> to hand written score sheets in 2005, I went through the 2003 & 2004
> Scantron sheets and there were a LOT of errors and NO's on them.
> If the cell system was perfect ( can you hear me now.....) and it isn't by
> a long shot in many areas of the county, sending individual keystrokes
> would be a challenge.
> One other system some of you may be aware of is in the field of Education.
> There are classroom systems out that allow students using handheld clickers
> (think of a small TV remote) to enter answers in real time. The data is
> collected and displayed, how many right, how many wrong etc. This is based
> on both Bluetooth and 2.4 ghz at the present time and prices for systems
> range from 500.00 up to 2495.00.  The problem still is hitting the correct
> keys consistently. When testing the first systems in 2005 we had students
> that said they answered correctly, but the software said otherwise. Either
> they lied or maybe press the wrong button. There was no way to check, as
> the clickers do not hold a file, they were real time.
> Real time data entry is fast. However, in competition consistency and
> accuracy is a must, but it is hard to achieve both in real time. You need a
> way to double check and verify. I know competitors want true and accurate
> scores. Otherwise, there is no reason to fly in front of judges.
> Just a few thoughts,
> Marty
> D4
> NSRCA 2551
> AMA 9945 CD LM
> Marty King
> 574-304-5781
> 56632 Boss Blvd. Elkhart, Indiana 46516
> ________________________________
>  From: Phil S. <chuenkan at comcast.net>
> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 3:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service
> at the fields where you compete
> Jim is correct -- I spent the last 10 years of my career studying
> driver distraction (for the FHWA) in a driving simulator.  I have said
> for a LONG time, that eyes-on-road and hands-on-wheel (with the
> "hands-free methods) does NOT mean mind on-driving-task.  I have used
> the van Putte method, and it WORKS.  People can NOT multitask, any more
> than a single-core CPU can, and while one task is swapped out, it task
> will suffer, no matter how short the swap-time is.
> On 12/8/2011 12:32 PM, J N Hiller wrote:
> >Hear we go
> again!
> >Keeping 'eyes
> on airplane' is of little benefit when the brain's concentration or
> thought is
> elsewhere. The distraction incurred trying to operate a remote devise
> will
> likely outweigh the benefits, at least for many of us willing to admit
> it. I
> find writing numbers in a line along the edge of a clipboard to be the
> least distracting.
> >
> >Jim
> --
> Phil Spelt, KCRC President
> AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member
> SPA 177 Board Member
> (865) 435-1476v, (865) 604-0541c
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