[NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at the fields where you compete

Fri Dec 9 05:28:11 AKST 2011

Peter,

    How about enabling the phone's camera so it stores the video from two
seconds before and two seconds after each time you hit the "downgrade"
button.  That way when someone complains about zeroing their snap, you can
upload it to the mailing list on Monday for "peer review"!!

Keith Hoard
Collierville, TN
khoard at gmail.com

On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Anthony Romano <anthonyr105 at hotmail.com>wrote:

>  Peter,
>
> Thank you for taking the initiative to bring forth this idea. Working in
> manufacturing I know how much people like to shoot at a something new.
>
>  Personally, I think this would be a great system. The ideas of capturing
> downgrades to a reviewable screen that would be sent via wifi to
> the scoring computer is great. I am always the last judge to submit my
> sheets for the time it takes me to transcribe them. Reducing the anxiety of
> knowing I am holding up the flight line would definitely make judging a
> more pleasurable experience and I may even get better at it.
> Also, cutting down the time that volunteers are chained to the computer
> punching in scores is tremendous.
> Of course there will be bugs and issues and someone will be running around
> pulling there hair out looking for score sheets and pencils at first but we
> could certainly make this happen. The scorekeeper is the toughest and most
> critical job at any contest. Anything that simplifies the process will make
> it easier and more fun to run contests!
>
> I just got an iPad and don't have a smart phone so I can't comment on 3G
> in D1. Most of the sites in the district do have reasonable cell service if
> that is any indication. Also, I would happily volunteer my iPad for use in
> the future.
>
> I love the new scoring database that has been built and the ability to
> review scores, weeks and months later as well as compare scores in other
> districts. Thanks to all who made this happen! It is the hard work of so
> many volunteers that makes all of this great sport possible.
>
> Anthony Romano
>
>  ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 16:49:24 -0800
> From: vogel.peter at gmail.com
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service
> at the fields where you compete
>
> We haven't talked about paper yet...
>
> At a bare minimum all scores would be kept on the local device as well, in
> essence you'd have 3 electronic copies of all scores when everything goes
> right: on the local device, in the cloud, and on the scoring computer.
>
> Little blue tooth printers that print on cash register receipt paper are
> very inexpensive and could be used to print if a paper trail is needed
> (i.e. for the nats) as a backup to the electronics.
>
> Peter+
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Dave Burton <burtona at atmc.net> wrote:
>
> Is it really a good idea to give up a paper trail of scores? What happens
> when the system fails and you lose a whole flight, or round, or contest,
> before the data is captured by a scoring computer with some sort of back up?
> But that could never happen with today's computer technology, right?
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:
> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince"
> Bortone
> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:46 PM
> To: Marty King
> Cc: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service
> at the fields where you compete
>
> What if we have a system with only 3 buttoms.  1 point & 1/2 point
> deductions and enter.  When you hit enter,  the systen gives you next
> manuever in one ear head phone and store the deductions of previous
> manuever.  Just dreaming but could be good.  How many times we miss
> something important because we don't remember the next manuever?  Always
> keep pencil and paper as backup just in case. If judging FAI and judge hits
> 1/2 point will advice in the ear phone that is not valid option in FAI.
>
> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marty King &lt;mking46516 at yahoo.com&gt;
> To: General pattern discussion &lt;nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org&gt;
> Sent: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 22:31:55 -0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service
> at the fields where you compete
> Spending the past 23 years in IT and doing scoring at the both the
> district level and Nats I have to chime in.
> I have found, that since I use both a tablet and Iphone for all my
> communication these days, you can not be 100% sure of a consistent
> keystroke on a touch screen.  And if you miss just one well placed digit,
> it distracts you and sets off a lot of unwanted fumbling. Unless the device
> wrote to a file that could be checked by the judge for correctness prior to
> being sent over the wireless, there would be a lot of issues. As a point of
> history we moved off of Scantron sheets at the Nats so we could do several
> things. One big one was to try and put the judges eyes back on the
> airplane. Second was to lower the expectation of what scribes, if used, had
> to do (we were using outside scribes) Then third was to have three eyes
> checking the data, the judges to make sure the score sheet was filled in
> completely, the data entry person to input and a data verification person
> to check the data.
> I think the wireless aspect (especially a secure 2.4 or 5.8) may have some
> merit, especially if used at the Nats, we could send and import a judges
> complete score sheet per pilot. A scratch pad would still be used for the
> raw scoring, but as now, it could be transferred instead to a wireless
> device instead of a score sheet and sent to the Host scoring PC or server.
>  This would alleviate the second check of the data at scoring, as no data
> would actually be keypunched. You also would not need runners and scoring
> would take place even more timely than it already does now. If any
> questions would arise (as they do at the Nats) we could go back to the
> judges scoring pad on site for final verification. Right now we simply pull
> the score sheet and handle the issue.
> We had similar issues with ones writing directly on the Scantron score
> sheets, not watching the plane, loosing their place.... Before we changed
> to hand written score sheets in 2005, I went through the 2003 & 2004
> Scantron sheets and there were a LOT of errors and NO's on them.
> If the cell system was perfect ( can you hear me now.....) and it isn't by
> a long shot in many areas of the county, sending individual keystrokes
> would be a challenge.
> One other system some of you may be aware of is in the field of Education.
> There are classroom systems out that allow students using handheld clickers
> (think of a small TV remote) to enter answers in real time. The data is
> collected and displayed, how many right, how many wrong etc. This is based
> on both Bluetooth and 2.4 ghz at the present time and prices for systems
> range from 500.00 up to 2495.00.  The problem still is hitting the correct
> keys consistently. When testing the first systems in 2005 we had students
> that said they answered correctly, but the software said otherwise. Either
> they lied or maybe press the wrong button. There was no way to check, as
> the clickers do not hold a file, they were real time.
> Real time data entry is fast. However, in competition consistency and
> accuracy is a must, but it is hard to achieve both in real time. You need a
> way to double check and verify. I know competitors want true and accurate
> scores. Otherwise, there is no reason to fly in front of judges.
> Just a few thoughts,
> Marty
> D4
> NSRCA 2551
> AMA 9945 CD LM
> Marty King
> 574-304-5781
> 56632 Boss Blvd. Elkhart, Indiana 46516
> ________________________________
>  From: Phil S. <chuenkan at comcast.net>
> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 3:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service
> at the fields where you compete
> Jim is correct -- I spent the last 10 years of my career studying
> driver distraction (for the FHWA) in a driving simulator.  I have said
> for a LONG time, that eyes-on-road and hands-on-wheel (with the
> "hands-free methods) does NOT mean mind on-driving-task.  I have used
> the van Putte method, and it WORKS.  People can NOT multitask, any more
> than a single-core CPU can, and while one task is swapped out, it task
> will suffer, no matter how short the swap-time is.
> On 12/8/2011 12:32 PM, J N Hiller wrote:
> >Hear we go
> again!
> >Keeping 'eyes
> on airplane' is of little benefit when the brain's concentration or
> thought is
> elsewhere. The distraction incurred trying to operate a remote devise
> will
> likely outweigh the benefits, at least for many of us willing to admit
> it. I
> find writing numbers in a line along the edge of a clipboard to be the
> least distracting.
> >
> >Jim
> --
> Phil Spelt, KCRC President
> AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member
> SPA 177 Board Member
> (865) 435-1476v, (865) 604-0541c
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>
>
> --
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