[NSRCA-discussion] unknowns

Wed Sep 23 18:01:34 AKDT 2009

Gentlemen:  Thanks for writing.  Suspicions confirmed.  Bill Glaze
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tony" <tony at radiosouthrc.com>
To: "'General pattern discussion'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] unknowns


> Ron is absolutely correct!  My "sorry I ever wrote what is below" 
> statement
> would be that the very best judged contest I attended was, in my opinion,
> the F3A Team Trials when they were a separate event.
>
> The absolutely worst contest was just about every F3A World Championships 
> I
> have attended either as a CD or a Team Manager!
>
>
>
> Tony Stillman, President
> Radio South, Inc.
> 139 Altama Connector, Box 322
> Brunswick, GA  31525
> 1-800-962-7802
> www.radiosouthrc.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van 
> Putte
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:53 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] unknowns
>
> I am probably going to be sorry I ever wrote what is below, but I
> think now is the time.
>
> If you've never critically watched an F3A World Championships, you
> can't understand what goes on.  You can fly a perfect flight and get
> hammered.
>
> First, many country's judges NEVER judge at all between F3A World
> Championships.  Many poor judges, in my opinion, are at EVERY F3A
> World Championships.  Just why some countries continue to send the
> same poor judges, again my opinion, over and over, I don't understand.
>
> Second, it seems that there is an understanding on how scoring will
> be done among some countries' judges.  For example, at one F3A World
> Championships, flying far out not only was not downgraded, but flying
> at 150 meters, where the aircraft is supposed to be, was downgraded.
> At others, rules will be "bent" by the judges and it is up to the
> pilots and team managers to figure out what (that's not in the rules)
> the judges are looking for.
>
> At the 1995 F3A World Championships in Kasaoka, Japan, I was the U.S.
> judge.  During the Preliminaries, one country's judge was censured in
> front of all the other judges for scoring the pilots from his
> country's team too high.  Then, in the Finals, I found out later that
> it was determined that I was favoring the U.S. pilots, but I did not,
> to my knowledge, change my judging standards.  Apparently I either
> didn't judge fairly, or I didn't get the word that the judging
> standards were to be changed for the Finals.
>
> You can ask Tony Stillman, Quique Somenzini, Chip Hyde, Jason
> Shulman, Sean McMurtry,  or any other active pilots at the F3A world-
> class level, what they think of F3A World Championships judges.  Just
> don't ask them to do it publicly, where any F3A judges might read/
> hear it, or they would be sure to be 'rewarded' by those judges at
> the next F3A WC.
>
> Ron Van Putte
>
> On Sep 23, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Tony wrote:
>
>> Tom:
>> As a past 4-time USA F3A Team Manager, I saw a BUNCH of "unknown"
>> pilots fly
>> FANTASTIC sequences and not get anywhere near the score they
>> deserved...  I
>> can remember in Poland sitting with Chris Lakin and Kirk Grey watching
>> several pilots and one was just fantastic!  Chris and Kirk looked
>> at each
>> other and we need to check his scores!  When they came out they
>> were very
>> low...  very sad.
>>
>>
>> Tony Stillman, President
>> Radio South, Inc.
>> 139 Altama Connector, Box 322
>> Brunswick, GA  31525
>> 1-800-962-7802
>> www.radiosouthrc.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
>> Koenig, Tom
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:15 PM
>> To: 'General pattern discussion'
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] unknowns
>>
>> Ron and all,
>>
>> I LOVE your suggestion. At least then we may have a chance of
>> obtaining the
>> correct placings and/or the correct world champion?
>> Also-do not forget the cost savings to the organisation in that the
>> airfares
>> will be considerably cheaper by obtaining more 'local' judges. This
>> is a big
>> driver for the 'European' hosts....and why countries like Australia
>> and NZ
>> tend be disregarded if at all possible. We have issues in that
>> Southern
>> hemisphere countries always come from Winter climates where we have
>> limited
>> oppertunities to actually prepare/practice for a Northern (summer)
>> world
>> champs.
>>
>> I have also heard suggestions from W/C contest pilots ( not just
>> the aussie
>> team btw), that the they wished they could not be 'identified'i.e
>> that they
>> be infront of some sort of screen whereby the judges could not
>> identify the
>> actual pilot.
>>
>> Sure-some models could be used as a way of identifying the pilot,
>> but there
>> are plenty of the 'same' models being used these days.
>>
>> I thought that was a cool and perhaps 'do-able' thing? More
>> realistic than
>> some sort of computerised/video 'tracking', despite such technology
>> existing.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron
>> Van Putte
>> Sent: Thursday, 24 September 2009 4:57
>> To: General pattern discussion
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] unknowns
>>
>> I smile every time I think about this:  The F3A World Championships
>> host
>> gets a list of potential judges from which to pick.  The total list is
>> predominantly European judges.  Most F3A WCs end up with predominantly
>> European judges. The preponderance of European judges
>> dictates how judging will be done.   However, what if the list of
>> judges for the 2111 F3A WC is mostly made up of a judge from the U.S.,
>> Canada, Mexico, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, China, Japan,
>> Argentina, Venezuela, etc , such that it that it is NOT made
>> up of predominantly European judges?  Who gets to pick the judges?
>> As the host organization, the NSRCA does.
>>
>> Ron VP
>>
>> On Sep 23, 2009, at 1:19 PM, Don Ramsey wrote:
>>
>>> Matt,
>>>
>>> You will be disappointed to know that all the World Judges want to
>>> have rolling circles.  I objected strongly and thought I made a good
>>> argument; loss of fields, over houses, too much real estate, etc.
>>> But, they still want the rolling circles in all future patterns and
>>> especially F patterns.  It sure limits the number of fields that can
>>> fly those patterns unless the pilots decide to roll in.
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-
>>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of rcmaster199 at aol.com
>>>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:32 AM
>>> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] unknowns
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It seems to me that we keep "learning" the same lessons but some just
>>> never get the memo. Rolling circles are very neat differentiating
>>> maneuvers BUT not desirable in neither IMAC nor Pattern circles. They
>>> simply consume too much real estate and contradict the very
>>> essence of
>>> why we in Pattern moved to quiet our models. Noise reduction
>>> footprint
>>> was at the core of that effort some 25 years ago.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As my good friend Dean Pappas and I have discussed on many occasions,
>>> rolling loops, segments, variations, etc. are just as neat as circles
>>> and consume no more footprint than the typical schedule would. Oh
>>> BTW,
>>> these are far less difficult to judge objectively
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> MattK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ed Alt <ed_alt at hotmail.com>
>>> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> Sent: Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:08 pm
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] unknowns
>>>
>>> It's funny.  I brought my 40% Carden out of mothballs last weekend to
>>> work on the F3M stuff and all I wanted to do was fly it like a
>>> pattern
>>> airplane.  Ofcourse it doesn't quite measure up, but I found that I
>>> really have no enthusiasm left for wapping through
>>> rolls where the only skill involved is being able to stop on time.
>>> I admit, on the last flight of the day I digressed and did about 10
>>> minutes of 3d-ish garbage, until I finally realized that it was
>>> really
>>> not very satisfying.  Foamies are more fun these days than
>>> knocking the sticks around on a 40 % gasser.   I guess I'm just
>>> getting old...
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>>> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:44:06 -0700
>>>> From: seefo at san.rr.com
>>>> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] unknowns
>>>>
>>>> Vince,
>>>>
>>>> The "Slow Roll" in IAC does not equate to a pattern slow roll.
>>> The IAC
>>>> Slow Roll is just a roll, and the term slow is used to
>>> differentiate it
>>>> from a point roll or snap roll. In truth, the IAC slow roll is never
>>>> flown at anything but maximum roll rate available.
>>>>
>>>> -Doug
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, partial rolling circles are introduced in the Intermediate
>>>>> class. As we know, there is not way to do rollers by rolling fast.
>>>>> IMAC is missing to introduce the slow roll in Sportsman's
>>> class. I am
>>>>> not sure why since IAC includes the slow roll.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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