[NSRCA-discussion] unknowns

Wed Sep 23 06:03:13 AKDT 2009

Mike, 

A good friend just finished one.  With DA 170, canister, soft mount, and 15 servos the cost was over $6,000.  Extra 260 from ACE. 

Now, I am looking for an electric IMAC plane.  I wish that someone builds a kit using the same technology we use to build pattern planes (ie Integral).  Yes, it will need to be below 11 lbs to be competitive.  There will be no noise issues.  Let's try to find one.  I asked Jason S. and he told me that the market is not there to justify the production of this plane.  I think the time is coming because the noise and footprint issues are getting worse and worse.  

I found one that comes 12 lbs ready to fly.  This is the Extreme Flight Extra 260 that is 78" and 76" long.  It is not for sale yet but it is coming.  This could be good choice for now.  Probably we could reduce the weight by using some pattern techniques.  

Yes, I want to use the same equipment we have now for electric pattern planes.  This will reduce the cost.    

Vicente "Vince" Bortone 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "mike mueller" <mups1953 at yahoo.com> 
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:22:38 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central 
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] unknowns 

 Something not being mentioned and a little off from the original thought about adding unknowns into pattern is the cost of IMAC vs: the cost of pattern. 
 I'd say that the 2 planes I fly now which are an Integral with and AXI F3A and a Sickle with a Plettenberg ran me in the range of about $3000 each. I consider both to be no comprimise top level competitive modern no holds barred pattern planes. What I mean is these planes in no way limit my abilities. What would a comparable top level 40% IMAC plane cost me? 
                 Thanks, Mike Mueller 

--- On Tue, 9/22/09, steve hannah <shannah1806 at gmail.com> wrote: 

> From: steve hannah <shannah1806 at gmail.com> 
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] unknowns 
> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
> Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 8:16 PM 
> I think this thread started as a query into 
> unknowns.  Jim W's post pretty well hit the nail on the 
> head.  Leave the unknowns to IMAC.  When I switched from 
> F3A to IMAC (actually the JR SCAT series) in 2002 I started 
> flying Intermediate and really liked the unknowns.  Flying 
> those unknown sequences was very easy.  I found the degree 
> of difficulty of maneuvers between intermediate and the then 
> F3A sequence to be compatible.  Unknowns were no more 
> difficult and, since I had been flying competitive pattern 
> for 12 years I had little trouble adapting.  I was 
> typically the most experienced pilot in the class so I had 
> little trouble.  Moving up the ladder saw an exponential 
> increase in the degree of difficulty for the maneuvers as 
> well as for the unknowns.  It is true, you have to kick 
> butt in the unknown in order to win.  So, at every contest 
> I would spend saturday night learning and memorizing my 
> unknown.  I'd get the sequence and stick fly it until I 
> fell asleep.  I got to where I really hated that.  It 
> wasn't fun.  Flying Unlimited in 2007, including the 
> TAS, burned me out on this whole thing and cured me of any 
> desire to fly unknowns ever again. 
> 
> 
> When I started flying pattern again in 2008, it was like a 
> breath of fresh air to me.  The contests were fun again.  
> I am a competitive guy and I stopped having fun at IMAC 
> contests.  They were just too much work.  
> 
> 
> Pattern contests are much lower key and relaxing.  IMAC 
> events are hectic.  The unknowns put a cramp on your fun as 
> well.  I would always be thinking at the evening group 
> dinner "I can't have that extra beer, I need to 
> leave NOW in order to have enough time to cram the Unlimited 
> Unknown sequence into memory".  That sucked. 
> 
> 
> As for the never ending debate of which is 
> better/tougher/more precise, I'll say this.  Flying 
> Pattern made me a good IMAC pilot.  Then, flying IMAC made 
> me a much better Pattern flier.  They're all good.  
> Everyone should try both.  Just leave the unknowns to IMAC, 
> Keep them easy enough to memorize in 10 minutes in the 
> morning so you can have a few beers and shoot the bull with 
> your buddies at night. 
> 
> 
> Steve 
> 
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 3:57 PM, 
> Bill's Email <wemodels at cox.net> 
> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> J N Hiller wrote: 
> 
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
> 
>   
>   
>   Thanks guys that 
> will 
> make it a little easier.  I will then assume 
> that the slash marks 
> through the loop only indicate centering the rolling 
> element. 
>   It 
> looked nice through 90 
> degrees of ark with a very slow rate but I 
> only got one out of maybe a dozen attempts that looked 
> decent. 
>   Jim 
>     
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those marks are from the Aresti catalog and indicate where 
> on the loop 
> a roll element can be placed. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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