[NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question

Tue Oct 20 13:17:24 AKDT 2009

Mark,

That brings up some interesting points that are forgotten too often.

1.   You have to look both forward and backwards when developing a schedule. That is, does it adequately prepare a pilot for the next level AND is it too much of a jump for those coming into it. The second part is what seems to be forgotten most often. Sean’s reminding you of that with a fresh perspective. Developing such a schedule is no small task.

2.   It’s always easier to fly on paper. What seems easy to fly on paper may actually be quite difficult to fly, particularly horizontal rolling maneuvers. That’s particularly true after the snow starts flying.

3.   You should pay at least as much attention and maybe more to what someone has to say about a class they are about to enter or just entered than to those about to leave it. I’m always a little leery of the opinion of someone who wants a more difficult schedule after they’ve been in a class for a few seasons. That tells me it’s time for them to move up and I really question whether they have any concern for those about to enter the class that’s suddenly “too easy”. It concerns me a great deal because the future of pattern depends on it.

Verne 

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 2:32 PM
To: General pattern discussion; jpavlick at idseng.com
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question

Ron??  You’re smokin’ crack again.  STOP that…    Or wait, was that playing with Mercury…”No ill effects”…

You’ve been flying Intermediate for several years and you’re close to moving out of it.  On the other end though are the guys just leaving Sportsman.  Adding point roll’s or any of the things you mention would make their heads explode.     I’m just trying to get Sean (son) to roll well with elevator and not pitch up 20deg before starting.  We’ll get that down in Sportsman, but we’ll save learning to slow roll, or even add rudder through the roll in a ½ reverse Cuban for Intermediate.

Rolling with rudder is usually the last thing someone perfects as they’re cleaning up the hardward in Intermediate getting ready to move onto Advanced.  

Mark Atwood
President
Paragon Consulting
office ~ 440-684-3101 ext. 102

mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com

IT Solution Providers:  Custom Software Development. Staff Augmentation. 

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of RON HANSEN
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 2:37 PM
To: jpavlick at idseng.com; General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question

When I suggested that intermediate and advanced be more difficult what I was suggesting was that we need to build up more gradually.  For an example, I believe two horizontal rolls done using rudder and elevator is more difficult than one slow roll or one 4 pt roll.  I learned to roll using rubber and elevator by starting with a 4 pt roll.  I've heard others doing the same.  I agree that this can be taken to extremes.  For example, I've heard folks suggest that intermediate add 3 rolls.  I believe this will cause pilots to drop the rudder and only use elevator which I believe is detrimental later on (all rolls should include rudder and elevator).  Maybe move the 4 pt roll and the slow roll down to intermediate and add some more complicated rolling maneuvers such as 2 half rolls reversed inverted to inverted or 2 half rolls reversed knife edged to knife edge.   These or similar changes would close the gap between the various classes.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Pavlick" <jpavlick at idseng.com>
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:59:50 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question

Having the turnarounds AND box exits in Sportsman is a good thing, I think. As long as the turnarounds are not cross-box maneuvers (like a Humpty) then I don't think it's asking too much of a Sportsman pilot to try to keep things in the box until they get a break (box exit). This is very good at preparing them for Intermediate (NO box exits) as Pete said, yet it gives them some way to correct their lines.What tends to happen to ALL of us is this: One little error moves your line. Then another moves your line some more. Until you've learned how to correct your lines smoothly and / or simply not make those errors in the first place (or at least make them to a lesser degree) the errors accumulate and without box exits, you only have cross-box maneuvers to help you correct them. Sportsman doesn't have any cross-box maneuvers so how would they correct their line? With box exits of course. 

As a few people have said - and I say this all the time: the sequence you fly contains the maneuvers which you are judged on. This doesn't mean that you can't fly different maneuvers and / or sequences when you practice. Do you guys just go to the field and fly your sequence over and over every time? If so then I think you're missing out on something very important. The difficulty between Masters and Sportsman is (and should be) somewhat extreme. Yet there are only 4 classes that must deal with this range of skills. It's nearly impossible to  make each progression seamless. You must learn at least some new skills on your own. You can't expect that by repeatedly flying Advanced, you'll somehow magically be prepared to fly Masters when you point out. Trust me, you won't. VBG

John Pavlick

--- On Tue, 10/20/09, Pete Cosky <pcosky at comcast.net> wrote:

From: Pete Cosky <pcosky at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 1:04 PM

I partially agree with your last post but those building blocks have to come from somewhere. From my experience, I moved out of Sportsman 4 years ago and then stopped flying to help raise my son until this year when I got to fly again in Intermediate. My flights were ugly but at least I had an idea of how it all had to go together because I learned those building blocks in Sportsman. IF what is proposed were to have happened in my particular case it would have been quite the obstacle to overcome and probably would have taken some of the fun out flying pattern for me.

If a pilot needs work on geometry, and I know I sure do, then take the time to practice the given maneuver outside the sequence. Go and burn a few tanks flying the problem maneuvers and nothing else. 

My opinion is Sportsman is fine the way it is and it lays a good foundation for the progression in the classes.

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