<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:x="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" xmlns:p="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:powerpoint" xmlns:a="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:access" xmlns:dt="uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C14882" xmlns:s="uuid:BDC6E3F0-6DA3-11d1-A2A3-00AA00C14882" xmlns:rs="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:rowset" xmlns:z="#RowsetSchema" xmlns:b="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:publisher" xmlns:ss="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:spreadsheet" xmlns:c="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:component:spreadsheet" xmlns:odc="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:odc" xmlns:oa="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:activation" xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:q="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" xmlns:rtc="http://microsoft.com/officenet/conferencing" xmlns:D="DAV:" xmlns:Repl="http://schemas.microsoft.com/repl/" xmlns:mt="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/meetings/" xmlns:x2="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/excel/2003/xml" xmlns:ppda="http://www.passport.com/NameSpace.xsd" xmlns:ois="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/ois/" xmlns:dir="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/directory/" xmlns:ds="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#" xmlns:dsp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/dsp" xmlns:udc="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" xmlns:sub="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/2002/1/alerts/" xmlns:ec="http://www.w3.org/2001/04/xmlenc#" xmlns:sp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/" xmlns:sps="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:udcs="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/soap" xmlns:udcxf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/xmlfile" xmlns:udcp2p="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/parttopart" xmlns:wf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/workflow/" xmlns:dsss="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig-setup" xmlns:dssi="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig" xmlns:mdssi="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/digital-signature" xmlns:mver="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/markup-compatibility/2006" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns:mrels="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/relationships" xmlns:spwp="http://microsoft.com/sharepoint/webpartpages" xmlns:ex12t="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/types" xmlns:ex12m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/messages" xmlns:pptsl="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/SlideLibrary/" xmlns:spsl="http://microsoft.com/webservices/SharePointPortalServer/PublishedLinksService" xmlns:Z="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" xmlns:st="" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:372460639;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:1540797866 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Mark,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>That brings up some interesting points that are forgotten too
often.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>You have to look both forward and backwards when developing a
schedule. That is, does it adequately prepare a pilot for the next level AND is
it too much of a jump for those coming into it. The second part is what seems
to be forgotten most often. Sean’s reminding you of that with a fresh perspective.
Developing such a schedule is no small task.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It’s always easier to fly on paper. What seems easy to fly on
paper may actually be quite difficult to fly, particularly horizontal rolling
maneuvers. That’s particularly true after the snow starts flying.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>You should pay at least as much attention and maybe more to what
someone has to say about a class they are about to enter or just entered than to
those about to leave it. I’m always a little leery of the opinion of someone
who wants a more difficult schedule after they’ve been in a class for a few
seasons. That tells me it’s time for them to move up and I really question
whether they have any concern for those about to enter the class that’s
suddenly “too easy”. It concerns me a great deal because the future of pattern
depends on it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Verne <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Atwood,
Mark<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 20, 2009 2:32 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion; jpavlick@idseng.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ron?? You’re smokin’ crack again. STOP
that… Or wait, was that playing with Mercury…”No ill
effects”…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>You’ve been flying Intermediate for several years and you’re
close to moving out of it. On the other end though are the guys just
leaving Sportsman. Adding point roll’s or any of the things you mention
would make their heads explode. I’m just trying to get
Sean (son) to roll well with elevator and not pitch up 20deg before
starting. We’ll get that down in Sportsman, but we’ll save learning to
slow roll, or even add rudder through the roll in a ½ reverse Cuban for
Intermediate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Rolling with rudder is usually the last thing someone perfects
as they’re cleaning up the hardward in Intermediate getting ready to move onto
Advanced. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:#76923C'>Mark Atwood</span></b><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;color:navy'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>President<br>
</span><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Paragon Consulting</span></i></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><br>
office ~ 440-684-3101 ext. 102<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#548DD4'>mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</span><span
style='color:#548DD4'><o:p></o:p></span></u></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:#76923C'>IT Solution Providers: Custom Software Development. Staff
Augmentation. </span></b><span style='color:#76923C'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>RON
HANSEN<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 20, 2009 2:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> jpavlick@idseng.com; General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>When I suggested that
intermediate and advanced be more difficult what I was suggesting was that we
need to build up more gradually. For an example, I believe two horizontal
rolls done using rudder and elevator is more difficult than one slow roll or
one 4 pt roll. I learned to roll using rubber and elevator by starting
with a 4 pt roll. I've heard others doing the same. I agree that
this can be taken to extremes. For example, I've heard folks suggest that
intermediate add 3 rolls. I believe this will cause pilots to drop the
rudder and only use elevator which I believe is detrimental later on (all rolls
should include rudder and elevator). Maybe move the 4 pt roll and the
slow roll down to intermediate and add some more complicated rolling maneuvers
such as 2 half rolls reversed inverted to inverted or 2 half rolls reversed
knife edged to knife edge. These or similar changes would close the
gap between the various classes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "John Pavlick" <jpavlick@idseng.com><br>
To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:59:50 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Having the turnarounds AND box exits in Sportsman is a
good thing, I think. As long as the turnarounds are not cross-box
maneuvers (like a Humpty) then I don't think it's asking too much of a
Sportsman pilot to try to keep things in the box until they get a break (box
exit). This is very good at preparing them for Intermediate (NO box exits) as
Pete said, yet it gives them some way to correct their lines.What tends to
happen to ALL of us is this: One little error moves your line. Then another
moves your line some more. Until you've learned how to correct your lines
smoothly and / or simply not make those errors in the first place (or at
least make them to a lesser degree) the errors accumulate and without box
exits, you only have cross-box maneuvers to help you correct them. Sportsman
doesn't have any cross-box maneuvers so how would they correct their line?
With box exits of course. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>As a few people have said - and I say this all the time:
the sequence you fly contains the maneuvers which you are <em>judged</em> on.
This doesn't mean that you can't fly different maneuvers and / or sequences
when you practice. Do you guys just go to the field and fly <em>your</em>
sequence over and over <em>every</em> time? If so then I think you're
missing out on something very important. The difficulty between Masters and
Sportsman is (and should be) somewhat extreme. Yet there are only 4 classes
that must deal with this range of skills. It's nearly impossible to
make each progression seamless. You <em>must </em>learn at least some new
skills on your own. You can't expect that by repeatedly flying Advanced,
you'll somehow magically be prepared to fly Masters when you point out. Trust
me, you won't. VBG<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>John Pavlick<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
--- On <b>Tue, 10/20/09, Pete Cosky <i><pcosky@comcast.net></i></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
From: Pete Cosky <pcosky@comcast.net><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<br>
To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 1:04 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<div id=yiv444165611>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
partially agree with your last post but those building blocks have to
come from somewhere. From my experience, I moved out of Sportsman 4 years
ago and then stopped flying to help raise my son until this year when I
got to fly again in Intermediate. My flights were ugly but at least I had an
idea of how it all had to go together because I learned those building blocks
in Sportsman. IF what is proposed were to have happened in my particular case
it would have been quite the obstacle to overcome and probably would have
taken some of the fun out flying pattern for me.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>If
a pilot needs work on geometry, and I know I sure do, then take the time to
practice the given maneuver outside the sequence. Go and burn a few tanks
flying the problem maneuvers and nothing else. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>My
opinion is Sportsman is fine the way it is and it lays a good foundation for
the progression in the classes.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><br>
_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Internal
Virus Database is out of date.<br>
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<br>
Version: 8.5.420 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2415 - Release Date: 10/05/09
06:19:00</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>