[NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

Thu Nov 12 08:50:28 AKST 2009

"Bored" Yah I was getting bored flying advanced and here I am in over my
head. Can I fly that maneuver, heck no but I would enjoy the challenge. It
may even make some of the other maneuvers seam easier. I don't really have a
preference here. I'll fly what ever is in the schedule.
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of GEORGE KENNIE
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:47 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

Knife Edge across the top 180 degrees of a loop is very easy. It's the
bottom 1/2 that's hard due to the difficulty controlling the increasing
downline
speed which amplifies any roll coupling issues inherrent in the aircraft
design causing the airplane to want to roll out of K.E.  This area of the KE
loop
is completely absent from this particular maneuver.

 I see sport flyers at my local field that couldn't fly in Sportsman if
their life depended on it,but they're doing KE loops, 1/2 loops, KE circles,
vertical S's
and it's not just one guy, there's a bunch of 'em ( I confess, they ARE
flying my Rad Tad, sorry).

The Omega is meant to engage the skills of a Master's class pilot and I
would not like to see it dumbed down to a lower class difficulty level.

That area across the top is easily managed, once the 1/4 roll has been
executed, by subtle rudder inputs to preserve the arc of the loop,
especially if you
roll in a direction that displays the top of the aircraft. It's a simple
case of steering with that stick on the left hand side of the Txmitter.
Once the snap
has been completed the input finesse becomes a little more involved as the
interaction between the throttle and rudder inputs requires greater
concentration,
but well within the capabilities of our current Masters Class participants.
The Snap is there to raise the bar a little by quickening the brain response
time to
the rudder reversal application (this is Masters guys).

If you're flying Masters, I think you should expect some level of
difficulty. I think you would be quickly be bored if we gave you a Sportsman
sequence to fly
for 2 years. (Sombody has to say this stuff )

G.

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Burton <mailto:burtona at atmc.net>
To: 'General pattern discussion' <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

I like the geometry. Rather than the 1 ½ snap from knife edge, how about a
reverse knife edge across the top. That gets George’s use of opposite rudder
into play.
Dave Burton
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Wayne
Galligan
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:43 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

George,

Do you really think that a knife edge loop is an advanced maneuver?  I like
the geometry of this maneuver and your thoughts about proposing something
different.  However the 1 1/2 snap on a looping knife edge really does put
it into an FAI category.

Keep in mind this maneuver may not be that difficult on a sim but factor in
real life conditions and any kind of wind condition and this maneuver could
be all over the place considering knife edge and the 1 1/2 snap.

Wayne Galligan
----- Original Message -----
From: GEORGE KENNIE <mailto:geobet4 at verizon.net>
To: General pattern discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

Obviously, the entry and exit radii require the same radial arc and should
be no more complex to judge than the four
corners of a square loop.

Eliminating the snap and a half at the top as suggested by Ramsey would
relegate it to the status of an Advanced
maneuver. The difficulty of the KE loop is 90% in the bottom half, which is
completely missing
here and the snap is included to increase the difficulty factor by requiring
the change to opposite rudder.

G.

----- Original Message -----
From: J N Hiller <mailto:jnhiller at earthlink.net>
To: General pattern discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

No, that works for me as a flier, but a specific radius may be difficult to
judge consistently.
I've felt for a long time that that the maneuvers in our sequences utilize
three different radiuses full height and half and full height loops and
small radiuses used in facetted loops such as triangle, hex, octagon and
square.
I would not have a problem pulling a small radius sufficiently before center
to intersect with a centered full size loop, the bottom of which if
projected round would be at entrance or base line altitude, but again it may
be hard to judge.
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of GEORGE KENNIE
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:30 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

My feeling here is that,..........if we now have maneuvers that make
allowance for different roll rates, maybe we should
consider making an allowance for a maneuver with different, but specified
radii. Especially if it offers up some thing new
and a break with the status quo.

It's probably too much to ask.......................

----- Original Message -----
From: J N Hiller <mailto:jnhiller at earthlink.net>

To: General pattern discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

George if it is to be flown with equal radiuses it looks considerably
different than the attached drawing. An equal R drawing is attached here.
In any case it would be interesting to fly.
Jim Hiller

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of GEORGE KENNIE
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:22 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

I've been thinking about this maneuver for quite a long time and thought I'd
pass it along for consideration by the Sequence Proposal guys.

It's meant to be a Masters level maneuver and while it contains no
integrated rolling elements it has some challenging elements. It's a center
maneuver like an M and requires a deft hand to present with symmetry and
grace while still being a "safe type" execution maneuver, in that it's a
looping maneuver performed AWAY from ground level from an upright position
with an upright exit, so the pucker factor is minimized.

It's called an Omega, which should be easily understood by it's apparent
shape. Here's how it goes.  See what you think :

We're approaching center flying from left to right. At a point before
center, a distance equal to 1/4 the radius of the loop, the model pulls
through
a radius of 135 degrees to a 45 degree up line and immediately pushes into
the arc of an outside loop which is flown to the nine O'Clock position
where the model performs a 1/4 roll to knife edge and continues the radius
of the loop to the 12 O'Clock position where the model performs a One
and one-half snap and continuing the loop radius to the 3 O'Clock position
where the model once again performs a 1/4 roll and immediately pushes
to complete the remaining looping segment and completing the maneuver by
pulling through a 135 degree radius to exit in upright level flight.

There's nothing really hard here guys, but the maneuver does demand
respectable concentration. Think of it as a strangely entered loop with a
knife-
edge loop across the top 180 degrees with a snap and a half avalanche at the
top. Roll and snap direction are pilot's option.

Don't be too quick to discount it. I've only done it on the Sim, but if I
can do it, it should be cake for the Masters guys.

G.

The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
Omega

Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent
sending or receiving certain types of file attachments.  Check your e-mail
security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
  _____

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
  _____

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
  _____

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
  _____

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20091112/0e425ea7/attachment.html>