[NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

Thu Nov 12 07:47:27 AKST 2009

Knife Edge across the top 180 degrees of a loop is very easy. It's the bottom 1/2 that's hard due to the difficulty controlling the increasing downline
speed which amplifies any roll coupling issues inherrent in the aircraft design causing the airplane to want to roll out of K.E.  This area of the KE loop
is completely absent from this particular maneuver.

 I see sport flyers at my local field that couldn't fly in Sportsman if their life depended on it,but they're doing KE loops, 1/2 loops, KE circles, vertical S's 
and it's not just one guy, there's a bunch of 'em ( I confess, they ARE flying my Rad Tad, sorry).

The Omega is meant to engage the skills of a Master's class pilot and I would not like to see it dumbed down to a lower class difficulty level.

That area across the top is easily managed, once the 1/4 roll has been executed, by subtle rudder inputs to preserve the arc of the loop, especially if you 
roll in a direction that displays the top of the aircraft. It's a simple case of steering with that stick on the left hand side of the Txmitter.  Once the snap
has been completed the input finesse becomes a little more involved as the interaction between the throttle and rudder inputs requires greater concentration,
but well within the capabilities of our current Masters Class participants.  The Snap is there to raise the bar a little by quickening the brain response time to 
the rudder reversal application (this is Masters guys).

If you're flying Masters, I think you should expect some level of difficulty. I think you would be quickly be bored if we gave you a Sportsman sequence to fly
for 2 years. (Sombody has to say this stuff )

G.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Dave Burton 
  To: 'General pattern discussion' 
  Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:59 AM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

  I like the geometry. Rather than the 1 ½ snap from knife edge, how about a reverse knife edge across the top. That gets George's use of opposite rudder into play.

  Dave Burton

  From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Galligan
  Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:43 AM
  To: General pattern discussion
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

  George,

  Do you really think that a knife edge loop is an advanced maneuver?  I like the geometry of this maneuver and your thoughts about proposing something different.  However the 1 1/2 snap on a looping knife edge really does put it into an FAI category.  

  Keep in mind this maneuver may not be that difficult on a sim but factor in real life conditions and any kind of wind condition and this maneuver could be all over the place considering knife edge and the 1 1/2 snap. 

  Wayne Galligan

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: GEORGE KENNIE 

    To: General pattern discussion 

    Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:27 AM

    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

    Obviously, the entry and exit radii require the same radial arc and should be no more complex to judge than the four 

    corners of a square loop.

    Eliminating the snap and a half at the top as suggested by Ramsey would relegate it to the status of an Advanced 

    maneuver. The difficulty of the KE loop is 90% in the bottom half, which is completely missing

    here and the snap is included to increase the difficulty factor by requiring the change to opposite rudder.

    G.  

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: J N Hiller 

      To: General pattern discussion 

      Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:16 PM

      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

      No, that works for me as a flier, but a specific radius may be difficult to judge consistently. 

      I've felt for a long time that that the maneuvers in our sequences utilize three different radiuses full height and half and full height loops and small radiuses used in facetted loops such as triangle, hex, octagon and square. 

      I would not have a problem pulling a small radius sufficiently before center to intersect with a centered full size loop, the bottom of which if projected round would be at entrance or base line altitude, but again it may be hard to judge. 

      Jim

      -----Original Message-----
      From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of GEORGE KENNIE
      Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:30 PM
      To: General pattern discussion
      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

      My feeling here is that,..........if we now have maneuvers that make allowance for different roll rates, maybe we should 

      consider making an allowance for a maneuver with different, but specified radii. Especially if it offers up some thing new

      and a break with the status quo.

      It's probably too much to ask....................... 

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: J N Hiller 

      To: General pattern discussion 

      Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 7:14 PM

      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

      George if it is to be flown with equal radiuses it looks considerably different than the attached drawing. An equal R drawing is attached here.

      In any case it would be interesting to fly.

      Jim Hiller

      -----Original Message-----
      From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of GEORGE KENNIE
      Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:22 PM
      To: General pattern discussion
      Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

      I've been thinking about this maneuver for quite a long time and thought I'd pass it along for consideration by the Sequence Proposal guys.

      It's meant to be a Masters level maneuver and while it contains no integrated rolling elements it has some challenging elements. It's a center

      maneuver like an M and requires a deft hand to present with symmetry and grace while still being a "safe type" execution maneuver, in that it's a

      looping maneuver performed AWAY from ground level from an upright position with an upright exit, so the pucker factor is minimized.

      It's called an Omega, which should be easily understood by it's apparent shape. Here's how it goes.  See what you think :

      We're approaching center flying from left to right. At a point before center, a distance equal to 1/4 the radius of the loop, the model pulls through

      a radius of 135 degrees to a 45 degree up line and immediately pushes into the arc of an outside loop which is flown to the nine O'Clock position

      where the model performs a 1/4 roll to knife edge and continues the radius of the loop to the 12 O'Clock position where the model performs a One

      and one-half snap and continuing the loop radius to the 3 O'Clock position where the model once again performs a 1/4 roll and immediately pushes

      to complete the remaining looping segment and completing the maneuver by pulling through a 135 degree radius to exit in upright level flight.

      There's nothing really hard here guys, but the maneuver does demand respectable concentration. Think of it as a strangely entered loop with a knife-

      edge loop across the top 180 degrees with a snap and a half avalanche at the top. Roll and snap direction are pilot's option.

      Don't be too quick to discount it. I've only done it on the Sim, but if I can do it, it should be cake for the Masters guys.

      G.

      The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
      Omega

      Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments.  Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      _______________________________________________
      NSRCA-discussion mailing list
      NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
      http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      _______________________________________________
      NSRCA-discussion mailing list
      NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
      http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    _______________________________________________
    NSRCA-discussion mailing list
    NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
    http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  _______________________________________________
  NSRCA-discussion mailing list
  NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
  http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20091112/464e13e8/attachment.html>