[NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

Thu Nov 12 10:36:06 AKST 2009

Georgie:
Leave the snap in the maneuver.  (Can we look for a break in the pitch attitude?)<G>
Bill Glaze
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: GEORGE KENNIE 
  To: General pattern discussion 
  Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 11:47 AM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

  Knife Edge across the top 180 degrees of a loop is very easy. It's the bottom 1/2 that's hard due to the difficulty controlling the increasing downline
  speed which amplifies any roll coupling issues inherrent in the aircraft design causing the airplane to want to roll out of K.E.  This area of the KE loop
  is completely absent from this particular maneuver.

   I see sport flyers at my local field that couldn't fly in Sportsman if their life depended on it,but they're doing KE loops, 1/2 loops, KE circles, vertical S's 
  and it's not just one guy, there's a bunch of 'em ( I confess, they ARE flying my Rad Tad, sorry).

  The Omega is meant to engage the skills of a Master's class pilot and I would not like to see it dumbed down to a lower class difficulty level.

  That area across the top is easily managed, once the 1/4 roll has been executed, by subtle rudder inputs to preserve the arc of the loop, especially if you 
  roll in a direction that displays the top of the aircraft. It's a simple case of steering with that stick on the left hand side of the Txmitter.  Once the snap
  has been completed the input finesse becomes a little more involved as the interaction between the throttle and rudder inputs requires greater concentration,
  but well within the capabilities of our current Masters Class participants.  The Snap is there to raise the bar a little by quickening the brain response time to 
  the rudder reversal application (this is Masters guys).

  If you're flying Masters, I think you should expect some level of difficulty. I think you would be quickly be bored if we gave you a Sportsman sequence to fly
  for 2 years. (Sombody has to say this stuff )

  G.

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Dave Burton 
    To: 'General pattern discussion' 
    Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:59 AM
    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

    I like the geometry. Rather than the 1 ½ snap from knife edge, how about a reverse knife edge across the top. That gets George's use of opposite rudder into play.

    Dave Burton

    From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Galligan
    Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:43 AM
    To: General pattern discussion
    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

    George,

    Do you really think that a knife edge loop is an advanced maneuver?  I like the geometry of this maneuver and your thoughts about proposing something different.  However the 1 1/2 snap on a looping knife edge really does put it into an FAI category.  

    Keep in mind this maneuver may not be that difficult on a sim but factor in real life conditions and any kind of wind condition and this maneuver could be all over the place considering knife edge and the 1 1/2 snap. 

    Wayne Galligan

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: GEORGE KENNIE 

      To: General pattern discussion 

      Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:27 AM

      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

      Obviously, the entry and exit radii require the same radial arc and should be no more complex to judge than the four 

      corners of a square loop.

      Eliminating the snap and a half at the top as suggested by Ramsey would relegate it to the status of an Advanced 

      maneuver. The difficulty of the KE loop is 90% in the bottom half, which is completely missing

      here and the snap is included to increase the difficulty factor by requiring the change to opposite rudder.

      G.  

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: J N Hiller 

        To: General pattern discussion 

        Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:16 PM

        Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

        No, that works for me as a flier, but a specific radius may be difficult to judge consistently. 

        I've felt for a long time that that the maneuvers in our sequences utilize three different radiuses full height and half and full height loops and small radiuses used in facetted loops such as triangle, hex, octagon and square. 

        I would not have a problem pulling a small radius sufficiently before center to intersect with a centered full size loop, the bottom of which if projected round would be at entrance or base line altitude, but again it may be hard to judge. 

        Jim

        -----Original Message-----
        From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of GEORGE KENNIE
        Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:30 PM
        To: General pattern discussion
        Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

        My feeling here is that,..........if we now have maneuvers that make allowance for different roll rates, maybe we should 

        consider making an allowance for a maneuver with different, but specified radii. Especially if it offers up some thing new

        and a break with the status quo.

        It's probably too much to ask....................... 

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: J N Hiller 

        To: General pattern discussion 

        Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 7:14 PM

        Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

        George if it is to be flown with equal radiuses it looks considerably different than the attached drawing. An equal R drawing is attached here.

        In any case it would be interesting to fly.

        Jim Hiller

        -----Original Message-----
        From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of GEORGE KENNIE
        Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:22 PM
        To: General pattern discussion
        Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Emailing: Omega

        I've been thinking about this maneuver for quite a long time and thought I'd pass it along for consideration by the Sequence Proposal guys.

        It's meant to be a Masters level maneuver and while it contains no integrated rolling elements it has some challenging elements. It's a center

        maneuver like an M and requires a deft hand to present with symmetry and grace while still being a "safe type" execution maneuver, in that it's a

        looping maneuver performed AWAY from ground level from an upright position with an upright exit, so the pucker factor is minimized.

        It's called an Omega, which should be easily understood by it's apparent shape. Here's how it goes.  See what you think :

        We're approaching center flying from left to right. At a point before center, a distance equal to 1/4 the radius of the loop, the model pulls through

        a radius of 135 degrees to a 45 degree up line and immediately pushes into the arc of an outside loop which is flown to the nine O'Clock position

        where the model performs a 1/4 roll to knife edge and continues the radius of the loop to the 12 O'Clock position where the model performs a One

        and one-half snap and continuing the loop radius to the 3 O'Clock position where the model once again performs a 1/4 roll and immediately pushes

        to complete the remaining looping segment and completing the maneuver by pulling through a 135 degree radius to exit in upright level flight.

        There's nothing really hard here guys, but the maneuver does demand respectable concentration. Think of it as a strangely entered loop with a knife-

        edge loop across the top 180 degrees with a snap and a half avalanche at the top. Roll and snap direction are pilot's option.

        Don't be too quick to discount it. I've only done it on the Sim, but if I can do it, it should be cake for the Masters guys.

        G.

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        Omega

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