[NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle
jeffghughes at comcast.net
jeffghughes at comcast.net
Sun Aug 16 13:14:21 AKDT 2009
You miss my point. I'm just saying It's a long chain of money from the customer to the automaker to the supply base. When GM and Ford sell a car, the majority of the money goes to their suppliers. These suppliers make a profit also, and a lot of those parts are coming from overseas. Just because it says TRW and it's an american company, doesn't mean it's made in the states or the taxes are paid in the states . Nothing is as straight forward as it seems. I dont' like it either. I have never bought a "foreign" car. (Though I think my chrysler minivan was made in Canada) . I do feel that a car is the most expensive consumer item you buy and you ought to try to keep as much of the money here as you can. We've already lost our television manufacturing, and home appliances are almost gone (whirlpool is still headquarted in Michigan, but they don't mfg there). Steel, foundries, almost gone. I don't think our country can survive without a strong manufacturing base and from a pinnacle just after WW2, it's been down hill ever since.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Spelt" <chuenkan at comcast.net>
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 4:30:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle
Content, Schmontent -- where do the profits, and the taxes on them, go??? Japan or Korea...or Germany, or China, etc. GM and Ford profits got to "Detroit" and corporate taxes to Washington and Ann Arbor. Don't know what's going to happen to any "profits" from Chrysler.
I am also not happy about the CFC U.S. tax dollars going to Toyota and Honda -- but what do *I* know???
At 11:12 AM 8/15/2009, you wrote:
An automotive assembly plant does not add much content to a car, all the money is in the components and all the car manufacturers chase the components to the lowest cost producer, which right now is places like china, india and brazil. We get our blocks from brazil, cranks from India and push rods and valves from China. I started at GM in '73 and watched them go from the southern strategy where they built components down south (non union) and then things got cheaper in Mexico so we shut down plants in SC to move to mexico. THen it became even more global with Brazil getting into the act, then finally india and china. I currently work for a diesel engine mfg and we get 19Liter blocks from brazil and 30L blocks from Germany to be machined here inthe US. THe Japanese car companies brought their supply base over here (NTN, Aisen, etc) when they set up assembly plants, so it wouldn't surprise me that they have cars with more US content than GM or Ford.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Marshall" <lightfoot at sc.rr.com>
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 10:25:19 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle
There was an article published recently concerning the top 10 USA content automobiles. Toyota was three of them as I recall.
Jay Marshall
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Bob Richards
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:35 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle
My wife and I bought a Honda Element a few years ago (2004) and I remember looking at the information about where it was built. It was something like 65% components from North America. The CRV, which had the same drive train and engine, was 65% Asia or Japan (don't remember).
I did some EMC testing for a manufacturer that made components for Ford. Some of their stuff was made here, some in China, some in Europe. They design a component that may be used in several, if not all, models, and might be made anywhere in the world.
It wasn't too long ago that the ONLY manufacturer that could legally say their cars were 100% made in the USA was Saturn, but I'll bet that has changed, too.
Bob R.
--- On Fri, 8/14/09, mike mueller <mups1953 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Phil don't you think that the nations attached to most cars is kind of muddled? I mean Honda, Nissan and Toyota make a lot of cars here in the US employing a lot of Americans. Ford makes a lot of their cars in Mexico and Canada and South America. Stock holders own car company's up until recently with the Chrysler/ GM debacle. Stock holders from Asia own stock in American companies and American's own stock in Toyota and Honda. Chrysler is now owned by Fiat an Italian company. Mazda is 40% owned by Ford and the list goes on and on. I'm not usre what makes sense anymore. Mike
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An automotive assembly plant does not add much content to a car, all the money is in the components and all the car manufacturers chase the components to the lowest cost producer, which right now is places like china, india and brazil. We get our blocks from brazil, cranks from India and push rods and valves from China. I started at GM in '73 and watched them go from the southern strategy where they built components down south (non union) and then things got cheaper in Mexico so we shut down plants in SC to move to mexico. THen it became even more global with Brazil getting into the act, then finally india and china. I currently work for a diesel engine mfg and we get 19Liter blocks from brazil and 30L blocks from Germany to be machined here inthe US. THe Japanese car companies brought their supply base over here (NTN, Aisen, etc) when they set up assembly plants, so it wouldn't surprise me that they have cars with more US content than GM or Ford.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Marshall" <lightfoot at sc.rr.com>
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 10:25:19 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle
There was an article published recently concerning the top 10 USA content automobiles. Toyota was three of them as I recall.
Jay Marshall
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Bob Richards
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:35 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle
My wife and I bought a Honda Element a few years ago (2004) and I remember looking at the information about where it was built. It was something like 65% components from North America. The CRV, which had the same drive train and engine, was 65% Asia or Japan (don't remember).
I did some EMC testing for a manufacturer that made components for Ford. Some of their stuff was made here, some in China, some in Europe. They design a component that may be used in several, if not all, models, and might be made anywhere in the world.
It wasn't too long ago that the ONLY manufacturer that could legally say their cars were 100% made in the USA was Saturn, but I'll bet that has changed, too.
Bob R.
--- On Fri, 8/14/09, mike mueller <mups1953 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Phil don't you think that the nations attached to most cars is kind of muddled? I mean Honda, Nissan and Toyota make a lot of cars here in the US employing a lot of Americans. Ford makes a lot of their cars in Mexico and Canada and South America. Stock holders own car company's up until recently with the Chrysler/ GM debacle. Stock holders from Asia own stock in American companies and American's own stock in Toyota and Honda. Chrysler is now owned by Fiat an Italian company. Mazda is 40% owned by Ford and the list goes on and on. I'm not usre what makes sense anymore. Mike
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